Reply With QuoteShooting that much high, it ought to be obvious the difference in the base height or maybe 2 different height rings. This equivalates to about a 1/4".
What action do you have? It is a round top rear or a flat back?
It's a used rifle but looks new. I had my eye on it but a buddy of mine picked it up today. He tried two different scopes with different sets of rings. The bases he used are two fronts for a Remington. We thought that was the problem but i got on Warne web site Remington calls for M902/876 savage calls for M902/902 for bases. So i dont think that's the problem could it?
He had the target on a piece of 4x8 insulation board at 20 yards he fliped it up on its end. He was shooting 4 foot high moved the scope down as far as it would go he was still shooting a foot high. Need some help with this one guys.
Shooting that much high, it ought to be obvious the difference in the base height or maybe 2 different height rings. This equivalates to about a 1/4".
What action do you have? It is a round top rear or a flat back?
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Take the top ring halves and the scope off. Put a straight edge across the front and rear rings (where the scope sits). If you have no daylight at either ring half you will need to use Burris rings with the plastic inserts to get it sighted in. I have two Savage rifles that I had to do this on, except mine were shooting off to the side.
With yours being off up and down I suspect that one of the bases is the wrong height or mis machined
(you will see daylight under the straight edge).
The problem could also be one of the Savage receivers that escaped the factory with the front half of the receiver smaller than the rear. Take everything off the top of the receiver and lay a straight-edge along the scope mounting holes. With that amount of error, odds are that the front of the receiver is small and you will see some serious space between the straightedge and receiver forward of the ejection port. The fix (doubt that Savage will warranty it since your friend is not the original owner) is a series of shims to level the bases. Burris offsets in the Signature rings aren't going to be able to provide that amount of POI shift.
Its a round top rear.Originally Posted by sharpshooter
He checked the reciver with a straight edge it's flat. He also took the top rings off. The bottom rings are flat also. Everything is flat. Heres the kicker he has a bushnell arbor bore sighter and it will bore sight. But when you shoot it it shoots 4 foot high. He told me you can use High rings and a 32mm obj scope that will get it on the paper. Could the barrel be bent? I just got off the phone with him he's going to take it back we may never no.
95% of accuracy problems are scope related.
I would take a long hard look at the muzzle. If it is not square to the bore this can happen. Also, rotate the scope 90 degrees, tighten it down and try it. If it shoots 4 feet off to the side then you know its the scope or rings.
El Lobo
How is it even possible to be 4' high at that range?! That isn't even possible, didn't you guys notice the gun was pointed at the sky?
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Savage has developed a "shoot around the corner" rifle and when they screwed it on it was 90 degrees off. Guess you could rotate the barrel 180 and see if it shot 4' low.
Whats gets me is it would bore sight. I just seen the rifle once in the shop it looked brand new. They had $569.00 on it. He took it back today they are going to send it back to savage.
I figure it will be awhile but i'll let you guys now what it was. Thanks
If the rings and base are within reason, the scope has to be bent or defective inside. Like I said before, 4 feet high at 20 yds would put the rear almost 1/4" higher than the front.
Never trust an arbor type boresighter, as the spuds can bend very easily. It is just as easy to bore sight looking through the bore and centering on a target at 50 feet and seeing where the scope is pointing.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
I had the same thing happen with a new VLP .223. It shot 3' low @ 100. It ended up being a curved bore in the barrel. You can boresight until you drive yourself crazy, because a curved barrel will boresight fine but the bullet still ends up in the next county. Some light can still travel thru the bore of the barrel in a straight fashion and fool you. Mine went back to Savage for a new barrel and they made good on it.
A curve in the barrel to make it shoot 36 minutes of a angle one way or another equivalates to an offset of .191" from center. I find that to be an impossiblity. That much off center will wreck gun drills.
I've cut numerous barrels in half and in shorter increments and never found any to be more than .025" of center at any given point. The standard tolerance for any Savage barrel is that the exit hole at the muzzle must be within .060" from center to go on in productoin to be turned between centers.
The only explaination I can give is a combination of slighty off center and an off center crown, plus any small decrepiency in receiver diameters.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
I don't know, but "it was what it was." Savage changed out the barrel and then it straightened out... pun intended. ;D Since it was a warranty job I did not remove the barrel myself and spin it to see where the problem was. Maybe it wasn't so much of a "curve" in the bore as it was a "kink" right at the muzzle. It was not a scope, mount, or receiver problem, I do know that. Anyway, my point is that where the bore is apparently pointing is not always equal to where the bullet is going. I wouldn't have thought that possible until I had the experience with this VLP.
Bigger question? what were the groups like. With that much height at 20 yards, it would probably be a direct hold at like 1500 yards. LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ramdiesal
I was reading the past posts and found yours interesting. Have you found out anything yet?
I was reading the past posts and found yours interesting. Have you found out anything yet?
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Not yet. He's going to call savage this coming week. The wait is killing me. It's my rifle now i traded him out of it. ;D I don't need it. I have a remy varmint in 22-250 that shoots pretty good. I just couldn't help myself.
I apologize in advance for the thread necromancy - but this issue directly pertains to my new Model VLP DBM, in .223. I picked up the rifle two weeks ago, factory new. I mounted a Leupold 6.5-20x40mm VH reticle scope, on Leupold STD rings & bases. after boresighting it using the 'eyeball' method at 40M (the shortest distance at my range). I began the process of sighting in, one shot at a time. It was shooting high - about 2.5 ft. high, and 3 ft. left. I adjusted the windage screws on the bases, and brought it into within 2 inches to the right. I kept dialing down the elevation - until I ran out of adjustment. To make a long story short, after going back to the range today, and running in to a gentleman I consider a fairly knowledgeable rifle shooter, we ended up "shimming" the front ring, using 4 small strips of electrical tape. It did the trick. Once the scope was remounted, with the tape shims in place, I had to come back up nearly 50 clicks, to get back out of the grass. once on paper at 40, I had the elevation dialed in 1" high at 100M, and just slightly below the bullseye at 200M. I had never heard of using electrical tape to shim the underside of a scope before - but it worked great.
Some old timers used to use cut strips of aluminum soda/beer cans or foil for shims. I've heard of duct tape as shim material as well. The problem I'm having with this post is that I bought a brand new VLP in 22-250 a year ago. I haven't shot it yet because I'm waiting on Warne rings and their 20moa one-piece base for my 30mm tubed Bushnell. I hope mine passed the concentricity test closer to 0.000 than yours did!
Most hobby shops carry brass and aluminum sheet stock in various thicknesses from .001-.010. I myself have sheets of brass in .005 and .001 thickness. A sharp pair of scissors cut it easily and a leather hole punch makes nice round holes for the screws. I think I bought my cheap leather hole puncher at Harbor freight.
I like to set my elevation adjustments to the center of the scopes adjustment range at my final zero. So if my scope has 50 MOA elevation adjustment, I want to adjustment to be set approximently at 25 MOA. That way I have approximently 25 up and 25 down left. I hunt deer, hogs or varmits with my rifles so I end up zeroing my rifles anywhere from 200-300 yards. Sometimes I'm shooting closer and sometimes farther. I want the cross hairs to be in the optical center of the scope to provide best clarity I can get. To do this, I calulate how thick of a shim I need to add to the front or rear base and then cut the shim stock accordingly. When I start out I lap the scope rings when I first mount the scope. After I figure out the proper shim stack and install them. I remove the scope, rings and bases. Install the shims, bases, rings and lap the rings again. Hopefully if I've done my homework correctly I'm fairly close to the middle of the adjustment range of the scope. I'd give this a try to get your scopes on target.
Got the rifle back. Had it awhile just been busy. Don't really say in the paper work what they did. But she sure shoots. I had an old 8x32nightforce just laying around thought i would put it on there. lol I shot 50,55,60gr v-max in it.
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Thats more like it 8) I have a M12 LRVP DBM in 223 on the UPS truck right now, and have been following this thread, Regsards
According to your paperwork it looks like they replaced the barrel, same thing they had to do to mine.
I don't mean to knock what you are doing with your scope when you use shim's but here are my concerns.
When you create an uneven bed for your scope (shimming bases or rings) there is the likelyhood that you are putting a damaging stress on the scope tube and it's internals. Just simply go to Burris signature rings and use the different thickness posi-align inserts to accomplish your sight in needs.
Don't fight the new technology, I believe signature rings are the only way to mount a scope.
Charlie
FWIW....and my expert opinion and $1.25 will get you a small coffee at the corner gas station....but I agree with Charlie 100%. I use the signature rings on all my scope mounts...even the ones that line up perfectly. No fuss...no muss...and no scope ring marks on the tube. Also...no rings to sand or polish out to perfection.
Dave
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