Stock Question

[davemuzz]

Gents,

I wrenched onto a Savage Model 12 Action, a Shilen barrel in 6.5x55 Swede. (Yes,,,,a long action caliber onto a short action...but it works great!!) Now, the stock on this rifle is a Savage factory laminated, and when I put it together....I initially decided to see how it would shoot before I decided to see if I would bed the stock or not. (This was 2 years ago).

Well, the gun shot one ragged hole ;D so I decided not to bed it. However, this past weekend, our gun club held a "groundhog" shoot (paper targets) and I took the Swede. Now, the temps were the coldest I've shot the rifle at. And my groups opened up to a very disappointing 3.5" to 4" at 300 yards!!

I've determined that the only changed from previous teeny tiny groups is the very cold weather. So, that being the case, and the fact that I'm taking this gun out west this fall to whack (hopefully) an antelope, I was going to simply bed the action. (I've done this before....no big deal)

But....then I began to think (this is where I usually get into trouble) why don't I look into getting an accustock? The new accustocks would be lighter than my existing laminated....plus...no bedding. BTW, my Model 12 is a single shot.

Any thoughts on this??

Thanks in advance for your expert advice.

Dave

However, when

[csam]

Far from expert advice coming from me, I'm just sayin'.

Maybe it is not so much the gun as the ammo. Are you using handloads or factory fodder? If you have a temp sensitive powder, maybe try another combo better suited to cold wather, and stick with the load you used for your antelope hunt, if the weather is warmer.

[Blue Avenger]

what powder?

[showgun]

I agree with csam,

If you are experiencing poi changes from pressure changes do to changing weather bedding the stock will not correct the powder instability. Some people have different loads for cold and warm weather and others find a powder that isn't as finicky such as varget. I cant give any loading advice for a swede but I have had temp/pressure changes with H380 recently. I am currently jumping on this varget bandwagon to see if it is more temp stable. You might try playing with the load you already have worked up, adding/subtracting powder to replicate the pressure you had from your summer shooting session and see if your rifle wakes up

[pdog06]

To switch your rig over to an accustock you'd have to possibly make a couple changes:
1) it would have to be a centerfeed, or youd have to customize the stock to fit a staggerfeed

and

2) you'd have to have a different recoil lug cause the accustock uses a differnt lug.

I actually agree with the rest in that the pressures are lower in the ammo due to the weather change. If you have chronod these rounds I would take it out in this weather and see if you see a difference. Might not be much, but as we all know it dont take much.

Since youve done bedding before then I think that is your best bet, over swapping out stocks. Not to mention that your action is a single shot so the bedding job is ALOT easier since you have no magbox to worry about.

[82boy]

The Factory laminate stocks ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY accu-stock! Let alone the accustock use a different bolt release set up, and recoil lug.
Just bed the action, it not a hard chore to do.
I would also look at the scope, make sure everything is tight, and that it is properly working.

[davemuzz]

Thanks for your responses guys. My load is the maximum charge of RL-22 with the bullet OAL set 50-thousands from the lands. Win LR primers and Lapua brass all trimmed to the same length, and all brass is necked sized with a Redding neck size die. I handload for all my firearms. I think I may have purchased 2 boxes of factory fodder in the last 5 years.

Scope is a Leupold and it's good 'n snug on the Burris mounts.

I don't recall reading any post about RL-22 giving any grief in colder weather...but I won't claim to read everything.

Dave

[gotcha]

Dave, You might want to take a look @ Hodgdons web site. They have data there showing velocity changes w/ their new "extreme" powders compared to comparables@ various temps. My experience w/ RL-19 shows wide variations in velocity w/ extreme temp. change. (mild temp. changes for that matter) It stands to reason that changes in velocity will effect harmonics & thus accuracy. MHO I agree w/ 82boy on characteristics of laminate stocks. Are the claims by Hodgdon just sales Talk ? Time will tell. Perhaps another member could varify Hodgdons claims. Anyone listening?

[bootsmcguire]

I can't speak for all Hodgdon Powders, but I use Varget in my 308 for Targets in the Summer and Deer in the Winter. I use the same load all year and get the same P.O.A. in July as I do in December. That's why I choose to use Varget in my 243AI, Coyotes in the winter and targets all year. Have not tried the 243AI on paper much below 45 degrees, but it was 90 out when I first found the load and was the same at 45. I'll have to get to the range here in the next couple of weeks and check it in the single digit temps now that I am talking about it.

[davemuzz]

Interesting reply's. I have ran my loads over my chrony in the summer when temps were nice and the bee's were flying around. But not now when the deer are scraping thru the snow looking for a blade of grass to nibble on.

It was my understanding that RL-22 was "the powder" for the 6.5 Swede. When I worked up this load I do recall trying different powders, and then I purchased a pound of RL-22....and when I kept getting one-hole groups, I figured that looked pretty good!! ;D :D ;D So...I thought I had it wired.

Dave

[us920669]

During my 6.5 phase I had great results with VihtaVouri powders. Maybe it's a Scandinavian thing. The 127 gr RWS cone point liked being driven by N140; for heavier needs, I picked the 160 gr Hawk which thrived on N160, all pretty stiff loads. This suggests that a sane person who used a 140 gr bullet might be pleased by N150. Frankly, I didn't spent much time working these up since I was delighted with velocity and accuracy right off the bat. I didn't do much crono work in bitter cold, but my records show a slight but consistent difference between moderate and hot conditions. The influence of temperature on powder is a fascinating subject and I hope there are more contributions.

[GaCop]

I'm using reloader 22 in my Stevens 200 in 270 and it is giving me the best groups to date with a Sierra 115 grain BTHP designed for the 6.8 SPC, .714" at 100 yards for three rounds in the factory sporter barrel. My chronograph is showing velocity in the 2720 fps range making it a mild load. Temps here have been in the 30s to 50s since I started working up loads two weeks ago.

[bubbinator]

FWIW- Hornady's new Superformance powder claims to not be temperature sensative plus add 100-200 fps to most rounds. It will onlycost about $25.00 to find out. I'm going to look for it @ the next gunshow.

[davemuzz]

I had a talk with a gun club buddy who shoots a 260 Rem. His groups when it's cold (in the low 20's) or in the summer are the same teeny tiny groups like I was getting with my RL-22 in the summer, but he is using Ramshot Hunter.

He said he had read several articles on this powder and before he used it, he called Ramshot and talked to one of their tech guys. Now he buys it in 8lb containers!!

So, this weekend he's going to give me a container to try in my 6.5 Swede. I'll let you know how it shoots. I've priced it at Powder Valley and it's less costly than the IMR's or the VV's. And I shoot a lot of VV N-110.

Dave

[davemuzz]

Yeah....well just to update you....since my last post....there was this one teeny tiny piece of info that I forgot to mention ;D :-\ and quite frankly.....It never occurred to me UNTIL I was doing some additional reloading for the 6.5....

Yeah....well....about 2 weeks prior to loading the Ramshot Hunter, I trimmed the necks of the brass. Well, that in-and-of itself may seem like it's no big deal, (at least that's what I thought) but I have (now "had") been neck sizing my brass with a Lee collett die.

So, when I now trimmed the brass a few thousands, the Lee Collette die would not properly squeeze the brass tight enough to get a good firm grip on the bullet. I just plain didn't notice this the first time.....but the second batch I noticed this. I tried to "ratchet down" the Lee as much as I could, but it would not size the neck's tight enough for a firm hold.

So, I took my Lee full size (never been used before) and removed the inside neck sizer, and just adjusted it to become a neck sizer die. It worked perfectly. (BTW...I have a Redding body die that I use when the shoulder needs a bump. It's much easier to use than a F\L die)

Now my groups are under 1.5" with RL-22 with the 140 Berger, and the same with the Ramshot using the 129gr. Hornady. But I know I can get it to be better.

I think....and have not checked this yet, but I think I need to double check the torque settings of my action on the laminated stock. I've read this should be about 40 in\lbs and I should start at 30 in\lbs and shoot it, then tighten it another 5 in\lbs, shoot again, then the final 5 in\lbs and shoot it and see how or which setting gives it the best groups...or if there is any change in the groups at all.

Well.....at least I'm not to a point where I have 7.5" flyers and frustration out the wha-zoo!!!!

Dave