the model 12FV in .308 any more?
Im looking to do some long range shooting, 600 - 1000 yards.
I guess I can settle for the 12FVSS, but why no more 12FV?
Any noticeable difference between the 12FV and the 10FP, besides 2 inches?
Much Appreciated
Welcome to the site.
One word "sales."Originally Posted by NoahbodyImportant
What do you plan on shoot at at 600 and 1000 yards? IMO is your just shooting targets a 243 win is a FAR better choice than a 308.
You can have the gun you want built through the custom shop at Savage.
+1 The 308 is the most popular underdog in history. It offers nothing spectacular and the only reason the military uses it is because of their automatic weapons systems. Even they have seen the light in regards to better ballistics and have massaged the 50 BMG to the new 401, as well as, adopted the new 6.8 SPC. It seems the wind that pushed the 308 this far has stopped blowing and now all of the blind followers are now upset about it. Finally we may get some common sense back in regards to the 308. The only reason for its success is because people continue to put in on a pedestal despite it's shortcomings. If you only use a 308 without looking at anything else than you will only have the 308 to talk about but those few that have ventured outside have discovered greener pastures and even fewer have ever returned.
I believe the finish is different: the 12FV is blued whereas the 10FP is matte black.
the 10 is blued at 24", the 12 is stainless at 26". I'm thinking about selling my 12FV barrel in 308, and putting on an aftermarket barrel. I'll tell you one thing, it shoots one-hole groups under 47.5 grains of Varget and a Sierra 110 Varminter HP. Holy Moley!
Kevin
The .308 win is a great round, certainly not the "magic bullet" but it's accurate and efficient. If you think the .308 is no good, I'd hate to hear what you say about the 30-06, 270 win and such. If you're talking high end target shooting only, then I can't comment on that as I've never gotten into that, but for 99% of the shooting population the .308 is a good solid round. ;D
The same goes for most of the other cartridges based off the .308.
"Michigan's DNR system is the biggest threat to it's whitetail herd"<br />" Forget Smith and Wesson, our house is protected by Holland and Holland"
While I am not a great 308 fan. We would not have the 243, 260 Rem and the 7mm-08 if it were not for the 308.
All 4 rounds are good.
Just my opinion. . Have a good 'un,thecyberguy
Don't forget the 338 Federal and 358 Winchester...just to name the last two factory cartridges in the family. I won't even try to name all the wildcats this cartridge has fathered.
Kevin
Nothing wrong with the 308, Used one in service to take care of small problems at great distances. You need to take a look at the 6.5's [264]. Great round with out the hold over of the 30cal. Still have 308's but useing 6.5/284 mainly now
That's a pretty critical statement but short on specifics. What, exactly is wrong with the .308?
I agree as a specialized long range target cartridge it's been overshadowed by the newer 6.5 mm which offer equal ballistic coefficients with significantly less recoil but why the distaste for the .308 otherwise?
What is a good "economical" caliaber of choice for 600 - 1000 yard competition shooting?
I do not plan to handload, just yet. I have had good luck with the Prvi match ammo and can get that for $12.00 box of 20 (.308). This for me, is economical.
Any suggestions appreciated.
6.5x55 standard. Use the AMax or 142 gr SMK's and you are in business.
Another would be a 6.5x47.
I am not saying that you can't love the 308. What I am saying is people have a blind love for it because there are numerous cartridges and calibers that trump it in many ways. Like I stated, if you only use the 308 you only have the 308 to talk about. Defenders don't want to hear that there is anything better out there and are usually quick to jump to it's aid when attacked.
As a target cartridge it shows consistency, repeatability, predictability and has less recoil than an 06 making it easier to shoot well but is not inherently accurate. I hate that term and there is no such thing, it is a marketing term that stuck but isn't true of any caliber. I have shot enough different, "INHERENTLY ACCURATE", cartridges and calibers to say it is total BS! The 308 is not any more accurate than any other 30 caliber and requires all of the same measures as any other cartridge to be accurate. The 30-06 dominated the 1000 yard competitions long before the 308 was invented and the only reason it is used today is because of people putting it on an imaginary pedestal. If everyone is using a 308 caliber gun in the competition then the winner will be a 308 shooter and that is more fact than fiction. Its dominance is directly related to the shear number of shooters using it. The 6.5 is making a huge showing and is slowly stealing the spot light away. I would bet a weeks pay that a win at any competition has more to do with the shooter than his caliber.
I can see it as a target caliber but it is anemic as a hunting cartridge. I wouldn't build a 308 for hunting when considering all of the other choices available unless it was in an AR platform. The AR crowd is being sold a bill of goods with the 338 Federal because it doesn't offer any meaningful energy or trajectory advantage and unless you opt for the 225 or 250 grain bullets you don't gain any terminal performance advantage either. This is why we have never really seen any successful non magnums above 30 caliber because it really takes more steam to push the heavier bullets and only the longer/heavier bullets offer any better terminal performance. The magic of Ballistic Coefficients and Sectional Density. This reflects right back at the 308 when compared to the 7mm-08. The 308 only offers better performance over the 7mm-08 when using 180 and 200 grain bullets. Once we get into the 150 to 160's the higher ballistic coefficient and sectional density figures favor the 7mm-08. Then the 260 dominates with 120-140 grain bullets.
This does not make the 308 a bad choice only that one should make it knowing the limitations of it, as well as, the advantages of the other choices available.
Nicely said.
It sounds more like you feel as if you been "wronged" by the .308 at sometime in your life. ;D Every cartridge can be "trumped" by several others in some way, shape or form. It just depends what your personal prorities are. I don't shoot a .308 but I'd feel darn foolish to tell anyone it was a poor cartridge. As far as being anemic as a hunting round, that again goes back to your personal tastes. If you think you can't kill anything effectively with anything less than a 378 weatherby then yes, the .308 is anemic.
"Michigan's DNR system is the biggest threat to it's whitetail herd"<br />" Forget Smith and Wesson, our house is protected by Holland and Holland"
There are some who like "Pumpkin Rollers" and some who don't.
On the pain of "hi-jacking " the thread, being flamed , etc. ::) While I neither mourn nor cheer the exemption of the .308
I do kinda wonder why Savage did not add the 6.5x55 swede . I ll admit I am a lil biased as this is one of my favorite rounds .
???
Yeah...that's a nice caliber. You could always re-chamber a rifle in 6.5x55 Swede if you really wanted one. A friend of mine is doing this with a Stevens action.
:)
The 55 is best with a long action but the 260 would would have worked.
all info I can find say Savage has 6 2011 models coming in 260
Sales!I do kinda wonder why Savage did not add the 6.5x55 swede
With all the marketing hype about the 260, 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmoor etc. I think people think they are better than the Swede or that the Swede is some sort of antiquated relic of the past. Several years ago Col. Boddington wrote a piece "Cartridges We Can Live Without." and informed us all that the Swede was not worthy of our consideration. He didn't include the .308 in his list. Wonder why?
I bought a 12fv-.308 a few years ago. I love it for what I do with it. Target. But after I replaced the stock I have a bit of money in a stock rifle. If you want the FV and I say go for it, it might better to look at ones with better stocks. But sometimes wonder if should build a .243 or 22-250 for target, just to save money on powder etc...
i agree. im sensing alot of anger toward this cartridge, which seems unwarrented. the .308 is an excellent round and i have scored several of my farthest kills with one of mine. yes, there may be 'better' rounds out there, but who is to say that all the qualities of 'better' rounds are actually better? just think, out of my 18-inch bolt guns, i get 2650fps with a 168grn match bullet, which has been the bane of many a beast. (yes, i use match bullets for hunting. say what you will, but im a politically incorrect trophy hunter who likes to shoot small things a long way off and proud of it. find me at longrangehunting.com username Josh Wayner). it is part of the game to hit precisly, and to do that you need to know your rifle, no matter what caliber. without practice, your 6.5 supercartridge is nothing better than a rock in a sock.
rifles chambered for this round can fire all sorts of ammo in emergency situations, from military FMJs to softpoints; the 308 is extremely common. it is advantageous to use a round for which there is lots of knowledge already.
Hey Bill, how about that 12fv .243 barrel I sold you? Does it still shoot those little bitty holes? I sold a .308 Tikka and replaced it with that .243. Now I'm down to the .22's.
A 12FV can surprise you regardless of caliber. I got mine for less than $450 otd about 6 years ago. Lots of aftermarket options when you find a good shooting barrel/action. Don't knock any of the cheapo fv's. Lot's of caliber choices when you get ready to re-barrel.
Actually, in factory ammo, some can be more "inherantly accurate" than others. A case with a shorter neck can be more prone to bullet runout than one with a longer neck. The longer case neck is also less subject to knocking a well seated, low runout, bullet, out of that "perfect" alignment, when being hurridly chambered in a hunting rifle.
It's also been PROVEN, certain case shapes and designs offer a more effecient powder burn than other cases. that results in more consistant pressure curves and velocities, resulting on greater accuracy.
I really doubt there is much on this continent (or many others) the 308 will not topple with a properly placed, well designed bullet. Is it the best? Maybe not, but it's far from overrated or underpowered.
I would not want to be inline of a 165gr bullet fired from one, even at 1100yds. You'll still be dead.
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