two missfires from new build???????

[jgerrington]

Got finished with my new 243 win build and was working up a load for it today. was trying different seating depths and leaving powder the same. After two encouraging 5 shot groups measuring 0.887 and 0.565, I had two missfires, I recocked and fired on same cases multiple times and still no bang. This is a centerfeed ss action. Primers looked damanged enough but I don't know. Using CCI LR BR primers. Any thoughts why this is happening. This is my first build and I want to say thanks to all who participate in this forum b/c I learned a LOT from here. I will post a pic of the gun.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Brass too short, not being held firm in the chamber and being pushed forward with not enough force to pop the primer?? Headspace set a "little" on the longer side?? Check the size of the dud rounds (brass) compared to the others that fired. Longer seating depth might help keep the round tight in the chamber till it gets fire formed?

[earl39]

If all primers came from the same 100 box it could be bad primers.
Forgot to put powder in case. It happens or so a little birdy told me. :'(

and no a primer alone will not shove a bullet down the barrel if there is good tension holding it in the brass (depending upon size and weight) altho it might make it move a few thousands.

Just a few other things to check that you can add to Mike's list.

[Rifleman51]

Check the headspace and firing pin protrusion. Make sure the primers are fully seated.

It's also possible that you got some bad primers. I have found little difference between the match primers and the regular CCI primers, so I save money just using the regular primers.

Also, when reloading , make sure you are not setting the shoulders of the case back too far. In a bolt gun, you only want to set back the shoulder .001" from a case fired in the same rifle. The Sinclair or Hornady shoulder set back guage and a 6" caliper are good investments.
The Sinclair guage costs a little more but measures the whole shoulder, not just one point on the datum line on the shoulder as the Hornady does, but either guage will get the job done.

John K

[jgerrington]

Here is the pics of my first build.
model 112 action centerfeed
shilen barrel .243win 1-8 twist select match
SSS bolt handle and bolt fluting
stockeys LRV (long range varmint) stock
NSS recoil lug
vortex viper pa 6.5-20x44
burris sig zee rings

[img width=600 height=400]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d38/jgerrington/IMG_1484.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=399]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d38/jgerrington/IMG_1483.jpg[/img]

[GaCop]

Pull the "miss fires" apart and I think you will find you overlooked putting powder in the case................ask me how I know. Primer alone will sound like a dud, you will not hear a primer pop.

[earl39]

Pull the "miss fires" apart and I think you will find you overlooked putting powder in the case................ask me how I know. Primer alone will sound like a dud, you will not hear a primer pop.

Tell me it isn't so. not two of us.

[GaCop]

Yup...............and many more no doubt.

[Stu]

Primers. The only mis-fires,failures to fire, or delayed-fires i've ever had were with CCI primers. They were all from the same box , that i bought just to try cci 's. Put the rest of them up, went back to Win. and Fed primers and no more problems.

[tiny68]

I would bet a soda pop that it is a head space issue. Rarely do primers fail. I had a M700 Remmy rebarreled in a 6 Ackley. The gunsmith ran the reamer in a little too depth. Only about 50% of the factory loads would go off. I thought it was a firing pin issue. Formed a false shoulder to firing form with the COW method or just seated the bullets really long and the problem was solved.

Put a factory round in with two pieces of scotch tape on the back of one of your reloads. If the bolt closes with no resistant your are headspace to depth... Or it could be you are pushing the shoulders back too much when you size your brass....

Luck, Tim

[jgerrington]

thanks for the suggestions. the headspace is very tight. bolt is tight with factory rounds, so I doubt headspace is an issue. I tightened the barrel down on a go guage.

i adjusted the firing pin protrusion a little and fired 5 more and all went bang. checked those that did not and there was powder. I threw those in the pond b/c I am scared of them going off. Maybe it is fixed now. Those last 5 I put in a 0.6 in group at 100. My goal is 1/2 in groups. Can't wait to get started on my next build. Thanks for all the help guys.

[Big Chief]

I have the same problem with my Ruger M77 in .35 Whelen; I first thought it was a faulty spring so I replaced it but the misfires continued. I then thought it was the primers then I realized that all the rounds I reloaded had be run through the full length die and the shoulders had been pushed back to spec. So I reloaded some with the bullets out far enough where once they were chambered the bullets would be pushed back into the case as I worked the bolt closed while maintaining pressure on the case up against the bolt face. Didnt have a single failure and in fact on some of the rounds that misfired, I simply pulled the bullets and then reseated them out farther and ran them through using the same method above and they fired just fine. Now I only neck size the cases and havent had a single failure. It is frustrating as h3ll, I know....

Chief

[leather5to1]

and no a primer alone will not shove a bullet down the barrel if there is good tension holding it in the brass (depending upon size and weight) altho it might make it move a few thousands.

I beg to differ about that, I have seen a 45 colt fire the primer but not light the powder (unknown reason). It pushed the bullet so hard into the cone I had to hammer it out. That was a 250 gr bullet and was in a revolver so apples and oranges but a primer is definetely a force not to be taken lightly.

[earl39]

and no a primer alone will not shove a bullet down the barrel if there is good tension holding it in the brass (depending upon size and weight) altho it might make it move a few thousands.

I beg to differ about that, I have seen a 45 colt fire the primer but not light the powder (unknown reason). It pushed the bullet so hard into the cone I had to hammer it out. That was a 250 gr bullet and was in a revolver so apples and oranges but a primer is definetely a force not to be taken lightly.

too late to check it now but i would bet you that apple to my orange that at least some powder burned. i have had 45acp that didn't get a charge on my progressive and never had a bullet move. but it is one of those 1 in a million deals if it did push it in the cone without burning any powder.

Gary

[tiny68]

but it is one of those 1 in a million deals if it did push it in the cone without burning any powder.

I beg to differ.... I have had two instances in which I set off a primer with no powder in the case and in both cases the bullet was lodged in the lands, not deep, but enough I had to use a cleaning rod to push it back off. Once with a 308 using a heavy crimp with Fed210M primers. Second time was with a 6BR using Wolf primers, but I run really light neck tension on that rig when I am seating at the lands. I have had several people tell me they had the same experience....

Tim

[guhunter]

There doesnt seem to be any hard and fast rules regarding this subject. In very small cases, it seems that I primer alone will almost always push a bullet from the case. My thought is that smaller cases experience higher pressure than larger ones with just a primer pop due to their smaller volume. I have only loaded a "squib" once. It was a 7x57 and the bullet did not dislodge from the case. I have seen squibs in pistol rounds that nearly cleared the barrel. I saw one instance where a .45 in a 1911 came so close to clearing the barrel that half of the bullet was protruding from the barrel. It was a funny sight to see.

[Norsky]

If your headspacing is correct IMO you are probably dealing with the primers being slightly crushed during the seating process, sean this happen numerous times. Norsky

[L.H. Clark]

Well, regardless what caused it, if you can build a rifle that puurrty, you can surely figure it out. VERY NICE looking rig, congratulations. Nice choice of caliber too........She sounds like a shooter, you have all the "right" parts and sounds like you know what's what.

You realize that you have an addiction now? ;D But at least your in the company of addicts!


L.H. Clarke

[GaCop]

I had it happen with a 223 loaded with a 75 grain A-max and the primer didn't dislodge the bullet. I found out when I got home my lack of attention missed charging a case.

[leather5to1]

The rifle is beautiful, and sorry to derail with the primer conversation, but it is very important to check what happened when you have a misfire. In my case the gun popped and I could have physically just recocked and went to the next round in the cylinder, with devastating results. Instead I opened the cylinder and gunpowder poured out and thats when I looked and found the bullet shoved in the forcing cone. Slow and careful observation is always important. Also, I'm a 6mm rem fan so I admire the beauty of the rifle and wonder how good it would shoot as a 6mm. :)

[earl39]

sorry to derail with the primer conversation, but it is very important to check what happened when you have a misfire.

I also am sorry for the derail on the primer conversation but i agree anytime something looks, sounds, or feels amiss check everything out before proceeding any farther. I hope your rifle will shoot as well as it looks.

Gary

[desertdog]

i have done it!! no powder in the case!! that would be my first guess!!! but i would pull it apart to see what you got and go from there?? let us when you find out???