I use a Lee collet die for my 308 F class, but purchased a Forster shoulder bump die to set the shoulder back. I haven't loaded anything since I got the bump die as it came late last fall. Does anybody resize everytime with the bump die, and what kind of results do you get, and how does it affect case life?
If you push the shoulder back just enough to get a smooth bolt close, maybe .001 or .002 max, and by not working the brass more than needed, they should last a long time. I've got 15 to 20 reloads on 6 and 22 BR brass and they're still going strong. Throw in a body size once in a while if the case gets tight in the chamber. Bushing size the neck, bump the shoulder and you're good to go.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
I haven't had very good luck with bushings, and my Forster die does not have one, but I will order one and give it a try. The Redding bushing dies I have, have runout problems, I hope Forster is better. Thanks, Luke
I've got a forster bump die for every cal. rifle i have and they work very good.
I guess me and bushings just don't get along. I received the bushing (.335) yesterday, put it in the bump die, ran a case into it that had -.001 runout, afterwards had .004 runout. Three more cases had the same result. It's back to the Lee collet die and no runout issues.
Hard to beat the Lee. I found out the same way you did.
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
I don't have much experience with the Forster, but I have ran a few thousand rounds thru Redding Type 'S' F/L bushing dies (similar concept).
Running .308 brass fired in a factory SAAMI spec chamber that came out at .346" and sizing it down to .328" (winchester brass measuring 11 thou neck thickness for 2 thou neck tension) in one whack made for some *ugly* run-out. Redding's answer was that bushings weren't really intended to size down *that* far in one step - they suggested at least three. Me, I looked at the pile of brass I had and tried to envision sizing each one at least three times each loading, and just laughed ::)
Making sure you back off the stem a little so that the bushing can 'float' inside the neck area and self-align does tend to help a lot. Basically turn it down to where it stops, then back off 1/4-1/2 turn and lock it. Take the die and shake it hard - you should be able to hear the bushing rattle slightly.
The Lee Collet die does work beautifully for situations like the one described above... other than its often difficult to get *enough* neck tension, and it always seems to be a matter of when, not if, its going to eat a case and shove the neck down inside the shoulder.
I will never waste another dime on bushing dies. I was going from .345-.335, not that far imo. I have read what you posted before about reducing in small increments, but the Lee Collet does not have that problem. I will neck size in the collet and shoulder bump with the Forster for my 308 FTR. Thanks for the info , and have a Happy New Year. Luke
Never say never...Originally Posted by Luckus
Like I said, a lot of it is in the setup.
Good luck,
Monte
I use Lapua brass. I neck size and bump, don't remember the last time I full sized by brass. I always try my brass after bumping a few, smooth as can be! COAL stays about the same also!If you push the shoulder back just enough to get a smooth bolt close, maybe .001 or .002 max, and by not working the brass more than needed, they should last a long time. I've got 15 to 20 reloads on 6 and 22 BR brass and they're still going strong. Throw in a body size once in a while if the case gets tight in the chamber. Bushing size the neck, bump the shoulder and you're good to go.
[B][SIZE=3]Dennis[/SIZE][/B]
Like Nor Cal Mike I use Forester bushing neck dies to push the shoulder back. My 22-250 will pound tight after neck sizing only 3 times. I uses the Forster dies to move the shoulder back a small amount, allowing the bolt of my model 12 LRPV to close easily. In this regard the dies are great because you only size the neck and nothing else, plus you can control how much tension you put on the bullet. The only aspect I don't like is if you only size part of the neck to maintain a doughnut at the base of the neck, kiss it goodbye.
EMgun08, can you explain your comment, "The only aspect I don't like is if you only size part of the neck to maintain a doughnut at the base of the neck, kiss it goodbye. " What do you mean by "maintain a doughnut"? Why would I want to do this? and what are we, "kissing goodbye"? I should perhaps explain my situation: I have a Savage 12 FTR .308 on order and would like to try neck bushings. I haven't used them before. What size bushings should I get? I have commercial brass (no Lapua) and military brass. Thank you.
dead lizard the forster you can get in a kit with 3 bushings, if you just want one or a different bushing die just measure a loaded round in the brass you use then get a bushing.002 smaller
Dead Lizzard; Frank's suggestion is dead on. Check out The Forester Products pdf here: http://www.forsterproducts.com/clien...structions.pdf . They have a pic and a few instructions on the subject. Basically, I only size the first 2/3 of the neck which keeps the last 1/3 of the neck a larger diameter. This larger diameter helps to (among other things) align the bullet to the bore.
Cheers
EM
EMgun08, what do you do when that brass builds up and creates what they call a doughnut I do the whole neck.
I haven't used a bump die but I do have problems with my hornady .308 bushing neck die. I ordered a .336 bushing and it doesn't size the neck enough to hold a bullet... I'm kind of at a loss, it must be the thickness of the brass that is the problem because I'm sure they sell them for a reason. I guess I'll drop to a .334 bushing and see if that fixes the problem.
yep that will probably do it
id really love to have a bump die for my 25-06 but those darn things are expensive and im kinda cheap.lol guess when i get a pile of brass that i really dont want to full length ill break down and buy one.
Make your own bump die.
Take any neck sizer (not Lee) and stone down the top of your shellholder or bottom of the die.
Remove the expander and keep checking.
Eventually you'll hit the shoulders in the die and begin bumping back your brass.
I've done several until I just switched to FL everytime.
you said that you full length everytime? does that not wear your brass out prematurely?
The object of the bump die is to "not" work the brass more than needed.
Neck size and bump the shoulder just enough so the brass fits back in the chamber and the bolt closes easy. Then after maybe 4 or 5 firings, run the brass through a body die or full length die. Depends on how hot you make your reloads.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
Its my opinion and expierience that FL sizing with a bushing die will not wear your brass any faster than neck sizing.YMMV
One caveat. The FL sizer MUST be set up correctly. Most manufacturers setup instructions are seriously flawed in this area. Too many novice shooters actually follow those instructions.
At the present time I have three competition rifles. All three get FL every firing. The 6ppc and 6BR are run at pressures high enough to demand it. I could necksize for one firing after FL in those two. Just not worth it.
25-30 resizings in the last two years all with the same brass. I fully intend to use the same brass next year also. Scores are up, guns shoot consistently better and I'm not wearing the lugs forcing my chamber to do what the die is supposed too.
FWIW I've seen claims/opinions from much smarter BR shooters than I that state necksizing is actually detrimental to brass longevity. The theory goes that by the time a necksizing reloader gets around to bumping his shoulders back a larger bump is usually required. In the order of .003-.004" as opposed to .001"-.002" a properly set up FL die would do.
The theory goes on to say this one time occasional big bump causes more weakness in the brass than a smaller more frequent bump.
I'm not smart enough to argue that point one way or the other.
Just throwin it out there to be chewed upon;D
What works for me may not work the same way for someone else. Good thing we don't all think the same.
I run my reloads on the lower side so that may make a difference. Hotter loads will always need more attention that a milder load. I like the idea of a little "wiggle room" when it comes to reloads, just in case you get a weather change and the temp jumps an extra 30*. Nohing like pounding the bolt open, blowing primers and chasing extractor balls when it gets warmer to make your day. :-[ A always, YMMV. ;D
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
What in the world does FWIW and YMMV mean?
jo191145 is right the forster bump bushing neck die bumps the shoulder .004 as a FLS is about .001 or .002 that is why I also use the redding bushing neck die , no bump.
for what it's worth
your mileage may vary
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience
Members who have read this thread in the last 1 days: 0
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks