English major speaking here...........pls hold onto that.
LONG time user of MOA - think cross-hair reticle...1960's, 70's and 80's all the way up to now...trying hard to understand MIL. Everywhere I look - online - it seems everyone wants to expain what MIL is. OK - got that. Thank you. As I understand it - MIL is basically in tenths - not 1/4 inches. I'm working on making that transition.....
What I'm looking for and can't find is a plain language, simple tutorial on how to use MIL. Please know - I'm not asking anyone here to respond with a long post on how. Just looking for someone to watch on my computer screen who can talk to a real beginner on MIL. NOT what it is - but how to use it.
This may all sound silly to you Math majors. :-) Sorry if I've confused anyone here. I'm strongly committed to learning MIL. My new Zeiss S3 is testimony to that. If you can guide me to a simple, "basics" video which might help, I'd appreciate it.
Many thanks.
1 mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yards
1/10 mil is .36 inches (rather than the 1/4 inch of a MOA)
3/10 mil is just over an inch at 100 (1.08 to be exact)
Therefore
1 mil is 36 inches at 1000 yards
1/10 mil is 3.6 inches at 1000 yards
What more do you need? : )
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Not doubting or questioning a word you said. All correct. I appreciate your post. I really do. I envy how quickly you (and everyone else) can do that math. :-)Originally Posted by Robinhood
I'm just trying to better understand MIL when I'm looking thru my scope...listening to my spotter...or maybe have no spotter? I know this will eventually all make sense to me. Eventually. And I know more time / experience behind the scope will help - A LOT. Right now, it's a work in progress as I very much want to catch up to everyone who is using MIL and all its advantages.
As you've pointed out - it's likely not all that complicated. I've just not connected all the MIL dots yet.
Thanks again.
You have the desire. That tells me it will come to you. When it does you will have that aha moment.
When you go to shoot. Put your target at 100 yds. Zero your rifle and get a new target up. Shoot a bullseye. Then dial or hold over 1 mil. See how much the impact moves. Then do .2 mills, .3 mils, .4 mils etc. One click(.1 mil) will move your 100 yd POI .36 of an inch(in a perfect world), at 200 yds that .1 mil should be .72". At 300 yds it should be 1.08". You should see exactly double or 2x what you saw at 100 yds. at 300 yds you should see 3x the change in POI. From there on out to infinity it is the same thing. it is an angle that extends to infinity. Repeat doing 1 mil or 10 clicks then 2 mil.you wont see much at first but after .3 mills you should notice the change in POI. You will imediately see it when you go to moving a full mil. If you can move to 200 yds. then 300 etc...
every time you go out in distance you factor in the range.
.1 mil at 100 yds: .36 (up down left or right)
.1 mil at 550 yds: .36 x 5.5 = 1.98" (or 2 inches) 5.5 represents 550 yds
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Above is good info- I may try to simple it down even more for a few concepts- and when time allows will find a few good videos that can help.
When you zero at 100 yards your scope and rifle are aiming at the exact same point. If you then dial your scope you are making an angular adjustment from the position of the scope. Think about a protractor... and how the lines get further away from each other the further you go. That is how mil/moa work- if you move your reticle 1" at 100 yards it moves it 2" at 200- and 10" at 1000.
So you are not really making adjustments in inches or cm.... but rather making angular adjustments (that do correspond to a given number of inches at a specific distance).
And how you use it is going to a ballistics calculator and finding your data. With a 6.5cm I have 315 inches of bullet drop to shoot 1000 yards (a slow factory load) so you need to dial 30 moa (8.7 mil) and then just hold on your center crosshair. Then you use the reticle in the scope to make adjustments. If you hit 30" low at 1000 yards it is hard to know what that looks like because how do you measure 30" through a scope at 1000 yards? So instead you just use the reticle (measuring tape) in the scope. You see that you hit 3 moa low (or however many tenths of a mil) and just make the adjustment with your scope.
Well put.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Thank you Gentlemen. Thank you very much. Please understand.........when you talk about a "protractor," you know what that is...how to use it. An English major? I know it's a measuring device. That's it. Specifics??? Angular adjustments? Another way to measure...right?
What I AM going to do is read / seriously study what you both said. I am. Shooting tomorrow. FFP / MIL. Applying what you said.
Muchos Gracious.
As stated above these are all just different ways of measuring an angle.
MIL has become popular due to the military use of the measurement. Stems from artillery where they used mil angle to adjust the elevation and azimuth of the gun. The spotters gave adjustments in mils so all the military binoculars and scope sights were marked in mils.
If have a scope marked in mils then just ask the spotter to adjust in mils. Same for MOA.
Just don't get a scope with turret adjustments in mil and reticle in MOA. It gets confusing. :)
I like MOA for shooting rifle just because most targets are marked in MOA or inches and it is a familar measurement for me. And, yes, I used mils for almost 20 years in the Army. Then I started 'shooting' lasers and we used micro-radians :)
Thank you Charlie.
Here's my FWIW decision...
My 30-06 has long carried a plain MOA SFP scope with a simple crosshair. Nothing fancy but works. For HUNTING, rifle / scope are under MOA accurate and dependable. Proven. Something to be said for that. Shooting this afternoon, I've decided to leave it like it is. I'm good / confident to 400+/- ethical yards.
The 6.5 rifle carries the S3 FFP MIL. For TARGET work, this will be my rifle. I'm deep into learning MIL basics and enjoying the challenges.
Thank you for all your help.
Cheers.
Go to YouTube and search for Ryan Cleckner video called "understanding mils". It should answer your questions.
Thank you very much. Will do.
Cheers.
I forgot about that vid. Whynot sent you on a good mission.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Gentlemen all...
It's a real pleasure to be on this site with good folks answering your questions. I'm appreciative. For that reason and that you took the time to post, here's an update.
From just after 9 AM until shooting hrs ended, yesterday I worked hard with my FFP scope. H-A-R-D. Different power settings - different distances out to 300 for shooting and further for glassing. There's no question, the scope is very capable. Far more capable than I am. All that said, we know that the FFP reticle shrinks at the lower powers. The lower powers I use for hunting.
For target work - absolutely no doubt - I made a good choice / purchase. But my personal scope priority is for close to medium range hunting. Where lower powers give me far better FOV - faster animal / reticle alignment. In hindsight, I should have stayed with what I've always used - SFP. Each focal plane has it's advantages and SFP works better for this older gentleman.
With help, I/we made the SFP work well at LR shooting school a month ago. Where I first learned of the advantages of FFP and began gearing up accordingly. A short detour in advancing my shooting skills - good lessons learned. Glad to be back to SFP.
Thank you again.
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