Savage 12 BVSS 22-250 to 6mm BR build

[LDSILLS]

My first thought was lets build a heavily modified Savage 12BSS into a 600 yard gun. To do I would swap barrels from a .22-250 to a 6BR. So the web search for parts, advise and reloading info began. This started in January as I am laid up due to a walking deficit. I think the one person that I found offered the best advise was Eric Cortine in one of his videos. He basically said its a copy game read , interview and listen more than talk on what others are doing. Ive know this for years as I started shooting very young as I would copy my cousin and he would copy me when we shot. Only downfall was we had no money so we basically copied shooting techniques only.

That brings me here and my plans for the 12BVSS:

1) Stock, take that chunk of wood under the action and barrel and add a cheek riser. To me cheek weld is top priority when looking down that scope. People worry about reticle cant, I worry about HEAD cant. No shooter ever can drill one hole unless their eye sight is always in the same place when looking down the scope. Products Manufacturers I am considering is Atlasworx and Stock Positioning Systems
2) Trigger, is a touchy subject. No pun intended. I used to practice trigger pull in my early twenties. Everyone is different. Some like Cortina is what I call a push button trigger man. From his videos he seems to push the trigger with the tip of the finger. Where as common shooter like hunters tend to wrap and actually pull. The difference is push button requires a very light trigger and pull type require a heavy trigger. I am considering brands such as Timney and Jard as they are available. But I may wait and just lighten up the accutrigger and then await for Trigger Tech's Savage release this year.
3) Bolt mods, are far and few from what I see on the net. But clearly Pacific Tool and Gauge out of Oklahoma has my attention.
4) Followers, as mine is not a single shot I need to change the bullet feed orientation. For That I already purchased a Score High Bench rest Follower from Midway USA for $15.00. Install was easy except I don't like the spring on the factory follower. So I used the Handyman's Secret weapon Gorilla Glue Duct Tape and taped over the bottom of the magazine box to hold it in place while the action and barrel are separated from the stock. Follower worked great and will be a plus not only on the Field Bench when shooting, It works great in the Gun Room for checking head space and bullet seating. No more fumbling.
5) Bolt Lug and Barrel Nut, Pre Fit Barrels are a mystery to me because I am old and old fashioned. But many years of engineering help me relax a tad as modern machining tools are so accurate you can ask for a 32 microinch finish from across the globe and that is what you'll receive and if it 10,000 of them they will have a 85% confidence level induced they will all be the same. Thus I will go to Pacific Tool and Gauge out of Oklahoma and purchase their precise lapped lug and barrel nut.
6) Barrel, oh my where do you go? Well I believe I just might buy a Shilen and a Criterion. Both with a 4 groove. One an 8 twist and one with a 7.5. all based on Don Millers formula.
As the Criterion has a faster availability it will be installed first.

7) New Reloading Dies and other Stuff, so much is changing is changing in the reloading die world. Thus I needs a week worth of internet research and other info to decide. For barrel break in I believe Ill do it with some sierra matchkings and believe it or not winchester brass. For zeroing I'll dig deep into my pockets and find look for factory loaded Berger Bullets, with Lapua brass in 6BR now. These are my off the cuff thoughts for now.

8) Rings and Glass, I have always been a Sightron Fan. Glass is very very clear. They are rugged and track well. Even my older S1 hunting scopes met the requirement of Sqaure'd line target test. Sorry Bryan Litz we we using your "Tall Target" idea a few decades before you were born. But all others go hear and Mr Litz has a great explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Wf...adeAssociation.

9) Schedule of Completion and readiness for serious work, I am planning on next year for actual bench work. Mods will take a year, mostly because every corner I take, I read or see something better, something that makes more sense, or someone else says hey I did this. Again "Copying" is an important factor. Hearing what others have done on here may change my direction. Now if I were 17-55 years old again I am sure I would rush, if it failed I'd do it again. But as I mature I know this could be my last of anything. So its important I complete this as with the very best of my skills and products.

10) It's already has begun; as mentioned I did install a single shot follower, I have also done a preliminary "on the stock" layout of the cheek riser. Which BTW has been chaged three times sinch I took this photo of the original layout a couple days back.


Final) Heres a final comment to this old man's long winded introduction. I found this on the net from the 6mmBR site. It was found a few days after I decided to proceed with this endeavor. None-the-less it is a very good outlay of what I am trying to accomplish. It's from the 6mmBR website and its entitled 6BR Savage Pac-Nor "Silk Purse"
https://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek036.html

Best regards,

Larry

[LDSILLS]

Okay Okay...here is what I mean about changing my mind and heading off in a different direction. I thought I would investigate Rifle Basix triggers. Their install and how hard it is to adjust pull peaked my interest. As there is nothing wrong with Rifle Basix triggers! So I pulled up their install video on Youtube.

To the right of the video is that line of other videos supposedly similar to the one you're watching. There I saw one entitled "Savage Accutrigger Modification 2Lb to 12oz for ~$2" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba3sWKdl8lU&ab_channel=TGCorbinski.

Its interesting and so I'll do it in the next few weeks to see how legit it is. Since my fingers work better than my legs I ordered A C-582 spring (3/16 OD x 1 3/8 long x .016 diameter) and 10-24 x 3/4 machine screw from Amazon.

Ill do the mod after Amazons Thursday delivery. Whether I keep it or not who knows. From an engineering standpoint this mod makes a point. lets see How good the Amazon spring is! Heck I might even put the whole 12BVSS back together and shoot it in the 22-250 mode. I can redraw the stock cutout again!

Ladies and Men I just love this stuff!

Larry

[Fuj']

Welcome aboard. Sounds like your willing to work at it !! Some advice right off the bat.....Don't try and fix
what is not broke. Something wrong with your existing "floating" bolt head that you feel you need a PTG ??
His is no better then stock. Truth be told, your stock Lug and nut are just fine. If you feel the need though,
get the Lug from Northland Shooter Supply or Fred Moreo on this site. You stock nut does not need replaced
unless you mess it up on removal, and that does happen sometimes. You mentioned Criterion and Shillen.
I personally would prefer a Hart for the 6BR if a button barrel......Good luck and keep posting up your effort.
It just not going down the rabbit hole, it's going down many......

[charlie b]

I second the advice Fuj gave you. I don't compete and have only been shooting 'premium' stuff for a couple of years now. About 6yrs ago I got dragged into the rabbit hole by my Axis of all things. It shot .223 better than I could drive it. I started to get better and wanted to see more of these little holes in the X ring. :)

I listen to Fuj and a few others on this site when they offer advice. I won't try to list them or I'll forget one so I apologize to them ahead of time :) They are a true wealth of information.

I converted my BVSS to 6BR. I have a Shilen barrel and nut from NSS. Currently it has a Burris XTR scope on it. Not the ideal, but, it was on sale and within my budget :) My next barrel (to be ordered this year) will be a better one. I am hoping the wait time for a cut rifle barrel will fit my needs.

If you can find Lapua brass, get enough to last you a while. I only have a box left so I bought some Peterson brass to try out. So far it seems OK. I am not good enough to tell the difference between the two.

[LDSILLS]

I second the advice Fuj gave you. I don't compete and have only been shooting 'premium' stuff for a couple of years now. About 6yrs ago I got dragged into the rabbit hole by my Axis of all things. It shot .223 better than I could drive it. I started to get better and wanted to see more of these little holes in the X ring. :)

I listen to Fuj and a few others on this site when they offer advice. I won't try to list them or I'll forget one so I apologize to them ahead of time :) They are a true wealth of information.

I converted my BVSS to 6BR. I have a Shilen barrel and nut from NSS. Currently it has a Burris XTR scope on it. Not the ideal, but, it was on sale and within my budget :) My next barrel (to be ordered this year) will be a better one. I am hoping the wait time for a cut rifle barrel will fit my needs.

If you can find Lapua brass, get enough to last you a while. I only have a box left so I bought some Peterson brass to try out. So far it seems OK. I am not good enough to tell the difference between the two.

...Something wrong with your existing "floating" bolt head that you feel you need a PTG ??
His is no better then stock. Truth be told, your stock Lug and nut are just fine. You mentioned Criterion and Shillen.
I personally would prefer a Hart for the 6BR if a button barrel......Good luck and keep posting up your effort.
It just not going down the rabbit hole, it's going down many......

Fuji thanks for the suggestions and the welcome! It means alot.

Understand I am building a shooter as concise and repeatable as possible. I also want a "pretty" gun as I doubt I'll build anymore. (Pretty will be easier for my wife to sell it when I pass away! Hahah) I have built some guns in the past that proved to be concise and repeatable. But they were far from pretty. In fact I thought if this continues I might as well build a rail gun,, Hahah.

As for the bolt. I have researched and PTG bolt mods are pretty for the price. From what I have read and watched through many websites they indeed to appear to remove the Savage bolt slop. Bolt slop doesn't seem important but it is. When your eyes are aligned to the cross hairs and your cheek is welded, a smooth working bolt helps remove a variable of jerking your head around. If you want it super smooth then get a presion action bolt combo, but hey thats not the point, as its doubtful this build will ever compete at the top levels. Yes, I know when the bolt lugs arent engaged it doesn't matter, but hey why not make operation a tad smoother. So I get two bangs, first it will be pretty and second it "could " reduce some of the Savage Bolt slop.

I have had a message into Hart about their 6BR Savage Pre fit barrels and no response yet. Shilen and Criterion are around $120 less than Harts online prices. Northland can get me both along with lugs and nuts. Sort of a one stop shop.

As for lugs and nuts. I have found its easier to control variables up front. Just like I clean allot, "I can control cleaning, I cannot control fowling". Especially when working up loads!!!

As for the lapped lug's exact thickness I feel it will indeed reduce a another variable when I troubleshoot. You see it's not always the load variables, barrel issues, sometimes its other things that no one considers. So I will do my best up front to perhaps eliminate a few I can control when I assemble parts.

As for barrel nuts, I am a mechanical engineer among other degrees. Torquing and poor tightening moves the lands. Thus to ensure another precise torque during reassembly you must chase the female threads on the receiver and add a clean cut nut to ensure proper torque. Torquing is the prefered method of tightening always. However, if I were to reuse the nut and not chase the threads, I would use BLUE loctite, snug it down let it rest for 24 hours before any movement. Nice thing about Blue Loctite is it remains flexible and will hold after many recoils. I know this as I have spoken to factory reps and development I have run teams at Locktite, plus I have run several confirmation test on a calibrated vibration table when working with Government Contracts.

Best regards,

Larry

[GrenGuy]

^ OK ^

[LDSILLS]

Okay, after many hours of cruising the web looking at various photos of FClass and Bench rifles and stocks. Not to mention looking at the quality of the ones available and ease of raising and lowering. I indeed ordered the Atlasworx cheek riser hardware.

Two things stood out the most. I wanted a steel and not aluminum hardware. I just don't like aluminum no matter the grade on moving parts as it develops metallic adhesion or "galling". I also as mentioned I wanted one I could easily raise and lower. Not only for setting height but ease of lowering for cleaning. Guess what I like about the Atlasworx is the allen screw on the side which I can easily unlock and drop the comb. The other thing I like is their drawing is in metric so layout on the stock should be more precise and more easily manageable for laying out the stock inlets.


While I am awaiting for the order to arrive I will do a Trigger Mod unless I can get what I want to order! Fingers are crossed.



There yah go!

Larry

[Fuj']

You like steel I like aluminum. Don't over think the galling aspect of aluminum especially
on a cheek riser. it's not like you'll be constantly adjusting it. Beside's, good one's are
anodized, negating any perceived problem. Be concerned about weight. if your leaning
towards an F-class build, you are constrained by 22 lbs and that little bit of hardware
here and there adds up. Of course if you do not plan to compete, It all don't matter.

[LDSILLS]

You like steel I like aluminum. Don't over think the galling aspect of aluminum especially
on a cheek riser. it's not like you'll be constantly adjusting it. Beside's, good one's are
anodized, negating any perceived problem. Be concerned about weight. if your leaning
towards an F-class build, you are constrained by 22 lbs and that little bit of hardware
here and there adds up. Of course if you do not plan to compete, It all don't matter.

Yep I am a steel person. Ha! Honestly I am a 100% disabled Vet as a result I have issues getting up off the ground. Thus F-Class is out of my mind at this time. However thank you for sparking my thoughts on weight for competition again. Much appreciated. I want to keep the weight to around 16 lbs with scope, 17lbs at tops. That way I can shoot 600 BR in the Light class. IF I can build a shooter! Then I have to perform also, but I get an edge on my shooting on March 18 as I will get my 20/20 vision back when they replace my eye lens due to cataracts.

I'll go out on a limb. I for one feel there is no way a Savage Action can be used at National level matches. Especially when there are far superior actions such as Stiller Vipers out there and some very excellent gunsmiths. However, with a lot of practice, sound bench routines, good weather, reloading with purpose and perhaps a barrel tuner club match wins can be had and in the right state, state championships are in order. One shot 100 and 200 YD matches and group shoots out to 500 with my choice of a 6mm BR for this build. I say 500 as I don't plan on installing a 20 MOA rings or mounts.

I do have options on weight however, if this build gets heavy and after I prove the action/new barrel combo works. I can always do like Fuj and Dave the aluminum men hahah... go with a aluminum chassis. Orrrr hollow the butt out.

Have a great day...I have some 75 degree March

[LDSILLS]

3-4-2024
UPDATE 3-6-24
Update 3-9-24
UPDATE 3-13-25

In progress or completed
1) I am in progress of the Stagger Feed Mag Box mods to accommodate a Score High single feed part. Ill post picture of the box mods. COMPLETED see below
2) Ordered a Atlasworx Cheek riser
3) Ordered Criterion 6BR-Norma stainless, 26 inch 1/8 twist, 11 degree crown, threaded, with thread cut and stainless barrel nut has been ordered today from Jim at NSS (Northland Shooters Supply). Barrel was in stock. Having trouble finding 6BR Go and No-Go gauge, I bought the NSS. I also went ahead decided to try the APA Gen 3, Little Bastard Brake Brake. Barrel, Gauges, Brake, all arrived


Needs done
1) Trigger, Ordered new trigger. Worked on sear and carefully polished all faces. Along with polishing the trigger, sear assembly retaining pin. Pull feels very crisp now and is comfortable for me when tested in the vice. Red Blade Trigger arrived awaiting on sear.
2) Bolt,Lug polishing for lift easement, Bolt Face lapping truing Email into Sharp Shooter Supply for Action truing and timing, ejector pin removal, etc. Lift kit arrived and installed. Doesn't seem to add much? Noticed action lug surfaces appear to incompletely lapped Response from SSS. Awaiting answer on when to ship, 3-4 week lead time.
3) Cut and inlet stock for Atlasworx riser.
4) Order Petersen Brass for Barrel break in unless by miracle Lapua is found! ...COMPLETED! PETERSEN could not be found, Purchase 100 Brass Cases of ALPHA Munitions 6mm BR Brass with small rifle primer pocket from Bullet Central Arrived 100 rounds ALPHA
5) Order Sierra 107g match kings or Nosler 105g Custom Competition for barrel break in. Arrived
6) Order new 6BR F/L dies and Bullet seater... I plan on mixing and matching brands. (any advice on these so many options out there...COMPLETED! Decided on a Forster ULTRA DIE SET to get the ball rolling. Price drop online from $222.00 to $165.50 Purchased direct. Arrived
7) Order Small Rifle Primers

[charlie b]

If you're going down the rabbit hole then get Wilson seat and maybe even their size die. I get by with a Redding competition seat die and Forster FL size die. But, I only have one foot in the rabbit hole :)

Break in on my Shilen 'select' barrel was 5 rounds.

Now that Dave broke the code on the target Accutrigger the choice is fairly simple, especially with the matching sear.

[LDSILLS]

If you're going down the rabbit hole then get Wilson seat and maybe even their size die. I get by with a Redding competition seat die and Forster FL size die. But, I only have one foot in the rabbit hole :)

Break in on my Shilen 'select' barrel was 5 rounds.

Now that Dave broke the code on the target Accutrigger the choice is fairly simple, especially with the matching sear.

Thank you very much sir! Congrats on the rabbit hole...tell me more when it happened and what distance!

Yes I like LE wilson and the tools they offer. Great suggestion!

Lets see if button pulled Criterion works as good. Lots of praise on the net about them but I have am 50/50 on those as many guys are happy with 1MOA performance.

Dave and I have had communication about the target Accutrigger trigger. Thank you I have all the components and its on my list to get to the work done.

Rabbit Hole...I'll be lucky if I get down the Bear Den. Hahahah

Charlie a big thanks to you and Dave, Fuj for your support, it means a great deal to me.

[charlie b]

YW.

I am a solid 1/2MOA shooter. I try to be better and am getting there, but, it is small steps. I have had to refine my shooting (again) and am still working on that part. When did I get addicted? It was with my Axis in .223. When I shot a 2" group at 600yd (yes it was a fluke). Since then I have chased that kind of performance.

[LDSILLS]

Any remarks on Whidden FL sizers with bushing? I like Cortinas FL die and I want to support him. However I am not sure if the $115 difference is worth it. ((C-$284 vs W-$169))

NOTE: Forrester FL die with three bushings $139 at Midway.

I am wondering if going to 6BR instead of another caliber. Man it's hard finding "good" brass. I spend over 1.5 hours per day looking!

[LDSILLS]

Here's the single shot mod I did:

I cut theStagger Feed Mag Box mods to accommodate a Score High single feed. After one failure and a few hours of paper and box with blue tape layouts its done. I just need to prime and paint the box so it doesn't rust. a dozen or so trial feeds with 22-250 dummy loads and the 22-250 barrel still attached to the action, I would stay it works very well. Maybe even good enough I'll have the bolt face reworked to remove the ejector spring and ball. Unless one is available on the net.

Heres the first failure. This is where I thought I could us the follower spring "modified" to hold the Score High follower in place using existing Box grooves to hold the spring. Problem is the follower sat to high in the rear and interfered with bolt.
[IMG][/IMG]

It occurred to me why not just cut the follower box down. Then roll pin the follower in place to secure it. here's the results:


After dimensional cut layout on the blue taped box I set the dremel tool in the vise for a more precise cut.
[IMG][/IMG]

Here the cut box with the follower installed.
[IMG][/IMG]

Time to fit in the action...fits was just as it came out and the box and follower were installed in the action follower slots. Note the high spot in the box where I didnt cut the factory spot welds off.
[IMG][/IMG]

Topside view of the install looking down to the feed area. Test Round in second photo.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Nearly finished feed single shot feed system minus the paint

[IMG][/IMG]

[charlie b]

Brass is hard these days and the supply is not very logical. I bought an extra 100 Peterson 6BR a while back. Not sure when we sill see them again. I haven't seen any Lapua 6BR brass for a long time. I noticed 6x47 and 6CM are available. I'd hate to recommend a caliber just because of brass availability. Who knows if it will ever change. Then those might become rare and BR available again.

[LDSILLS]

Brass is hard these days and the supply is not very logical. I bought an extra 100 Peterson 6BR a while back. Not sure when we sill see them again. I haven't seen any Lapua 6BR brass for a long time. I noticed 6x47 and 6CM are available. I'd hate to recommend a caliber just because of brass availability. Who knows if it will ever change. Then those might become rare and BR available again.

I bought 100 rounds of ALPHA Munitions 6mm BR Brass with small rifle primer pocket today from Bullet Central.......

"good reviews are out there for Alpha, but the only review that matters is a 2-3 times of solid brass prep"

[PhilC]

Any remarks on Whidden FL sizers with bushing?

Can't personally speak to their bushing dies but some guys I have a lot of respect for give two thumbs up for Whidden.

[LDSILLS]

Waiting on cheek riser for Australia. On the jet! Hahaha So stock work is on hold.

Decided to do some bolt work now. Since I have the new barrel it only makes sense to work on the bolt as I need to remove the ejector anyway for headspace setting of the new barrel. Also with the action removed its time to sit in the easy chair put on some lapping compound and start lapping the lugs. I say sit in the easy chair as Its alot of manual cycling. Especially since I already see with the naked eye some ruff surfaces action. Ill probably start with 500 and move to 800 then 1000. Just hope my 60 year old containers are still in good shape. If not I'll probably get some Wheelers or something. Any recommendations will be heard and strongly considered.

Does anyone know the size of the ejector retainer pin? I ask as I'll probably get a similar size drill I don't have a drive pin punch that small.

Lastly I discovered the C clip on the trigger/sear retaining pin is missing. I think its a factory issue as I cannot recall ever disabling this rifle. There had never been a need to disassemble as it has only 127 rounds through it. Now I need to find a E-clip!

BTW here is the 12BVSS in 2004 right after barrel break in. But you know carrying a 12 lb-13 rifle on 6 calling stands/day in a mans late 40's to early 50's was kinda ridiculous! So it was put away and it sat until now.
[IMG][/IMG]

I am having a blast (no pun) on this mod! Thanks to Savage Shooters and all the info I have recieved. This site solved my question I have had!

Larry

[Robinhood]

I saw where David Hobeck had some e clips. Check with him.

[LDSILLS]

I saw where David Hobeck had some e clips. Check with him.

Thank you, my error. Eyes are bad. i found out that when you remove the "trigger/sear assembly" retaining pin it has NO E-clip on it. It just pushes in. However the "trigger proper" retaining pin does have an e-clip. Thus I am good.

[LDSILLS]

Lug appearance looks like the CNC machine needed a new finishing tool installed as its by the naked eye is much greater than 63 micro-inch finish. Not to mention a visible scratch on the receiver lug face. If mine is this bad Its no wonder Savage lifts are hard across the board. Mind you these lugs have probably less than 1,000 cycles and were well cleaned and properly oiled before storage.
[IMG][/IMG]



I believe I can smooth the metal without effecting fit by starting with a 180 Medium grit and working to a Fine Grit around 320 to maybe 500. That with the thrust bearing/washer combo behind the BAS should increase bolt lift easement. IMHO Now is the time to do lapping it so I can adjust headspace during barrel replacement.I had considered using a Dremel buffer and add lapping compound to it, however I cannot measure the surfaces face accurately so Ill do it the old fashion way, bolt lug face to action lug face.

If I cannot smooth the lugs, I will need to send the "complete action" minus the trigger/sear assembly and modified single action feed mag off for truing and re timing.

For reference here is a metal finish chart.

[Dave Hoback]

The surface finish of the lugs offers little bearing on Bolt Lift. It’s made increasingly worse, due in part, to the timing not properly synced of the Action/Bolt Head Lugs in front & the Camming Lugs in the rear of the Bolt Handle/Rear Baffle, aiding Primary Extraction. The relationship of function among the Trigger/Sear system, Bolt Release & Firing Pin spring account for some of the excessive Bolt Lift as well.

When you mention the Thrust bearing type lift kit, if you have the adjustable style Firing Pin assembly, I recommend the style using a single steel or ceramic bearing ball on a shouldered disk. It’s all about Coefficient of Friction. In this case, less is more. No need to overthink anything. Or try to reinvent. All the tricks are readily available on bringing bolt lift to within very acceptable limits. You are correct to pay attention to the Bolt. And yes, a T&T job may be beneficial. We have mixed reports: Some claiming complete curing of their harsh bolt lift & having a quite smooth Action after the work was done. And some who claim it was a complete waste of money, and their Action feeling identical to how it was before sending for the T&T. It seems to me that yes, some 110’s may benefit from this, if in fact, the heavy bolt lift is because their 110’s front/rear Lugs being very far out of sync! Other 110’s aren’t always terrible to begin with. And having a T&T performed isn’t going to be Earth Shattering, if any discernible difference. It’s straightforward on how to check the timing on your own, before choosing to spend the money. Video below illustrating checking Timing on a Rem 700. The Savage 110 is quite similar. This can be felt especially when you have a bare Action & Bolt assembly. Timing can be both visually seen & felt by the hand with a bare Action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szy4HBg3q80

[LDSILLS]

The surface finish of the lugs offers little bearing on Bolt Lift. It’s made increasingly worse, due in part, to the timing not properly synced of the Action/Bolt Head Lugs in front & the Camming Lugs in the rear of the Bolt Handle/Rear Baffle, aiding Primary Extraction. The relationship of function among the Trigger/Sear system, Bolt Release & Firing Pin spring account for some of the excessive Bolt Lift as well.

When you mention the Thrust bearing type lift kit, if you have the adjustable style Firing Pin assembly, I recommend the style using a single steel or ceramic bearing ball on a hardened disk. It’s all about Coefficient of Friction. I this case, less is more. No need to overthink anything. Or try to reinvent. All the tricks are readily available on bringing bolt lift to within very acceptable limits. You are correct to pay attention to the Bolt. And yes, a T&T job may be beneficial. We have mixed reports: Some claiming complete curing of their harsh bolt lift & now having a quite Action. Some who claim it was a complete waste of money, and their Action feeling identical to how it was before sending for the T&T. It seems to me that yes, some 110’s may benefit from this, if in fact, the heavy bolt lift is because their 110’s front/rear Lugs are very far out of sync! Other 110’s aren’t always terrible to begin with. And having a T&T performed isn’t going to be Earth shattering if any discernible difference. It’s straightforward on how to check the timing on your own, before choosing to spend the money. Video below illustrating checking Timing on a Rem 700. The Savage 110 is quite similar. This can felt especially when you have a bare Action & Bolt assembly. Timing can be both visually seen & felt by the hand like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szy4HBg3q80

Thank you,

I have everything laid out. So I can work on about anything I want. Before I lap anything I will paint receiver lugs and bolt lugs with some layout die (need to get some) and we'll see how the lug surfaces are aligning. When you speak of friction I fully understand where you're coming from. I am all ears with any recommendations you have to offer. Thanks!

I need to study the issues some more. None the less something is just not right with the bolt/action. Because after a dry fire when I go to lift the bolt its not smooth at all. Before firing its seems smooth and I can lift and close it with my little finger.

Do I have a bare bones rifle well almost if I remove the trigger and sear assembly! In fact thats where Ill start I pull the trigger/sear assembly and see how the bolt movement is.


[IMG][/IMG]

[LDSILLS]

Dave and others I found this on this site for bolt issues:


"From Nat Lambeth a well respected gunsmith. This is from an older post over at LRH, and for all I know things may have changed, but it stills gives a nice basic overview of what he does.

Timing and truing a Savage:

Savages are mass produced and designed to be put together in a production line from a bin of parts.

The bolt bolt bodies are chrome plated tubing drawn on a mandrel. The triggers, trigger hangers, and sears are forged or stamped out.

Their factory barrel, actions, and floating bolt head are the hear of their inherent accuracy.

Some of the things that are done to improve on the Savage rifles are bolt fit, alignment and timing.

The factory actions bolt race are .7015 ID and the factory bolt bodies are usually about .696 OD. Real sloppy in comparison to other manufactures.

The cocking ramps are cut with an end mill and the helical leaves something to be desired.

The main screw, compresses against the cocking piece sleave that compresses the firing pin spring. Slop and deflection in the spring adds to the friction in cocking.
Bolt lift on cocking is the major complaint about Savages. Bolt lift can be reduced by 50-60 percent by timing and truing Savage actions.

Some gunsmiths use a deprimed spent 38/357 magnum case cut to fit inside the cocking piece sleeve and insert a ball bearing in the primer pocket. The ball provides a smaller and slicker surface for the main screw to mate up against.

I drill and tap the main screw .250 X 28tpi and insert a .750 x .250 28tpi grade 8 cone point set screw. I also make a shouldered cap with a center indentation for the set screw to mate with. This does several thisngs it reduces the friction, it aligns the firing pin, and it allows for external firing pin spring tension adjustment.

The bolt handles are fit to the back of the bolt and held in place by the main screw.

Upon opening the holt handle rubs up against the ramp on the rear baffle this is where the bolt gets its primary extraction.

When bolt head lugs are turned or lapped they can move the primmary extraction out of timing. There for the bolt body must be shortened to bring the primmary extraction back.

I recomend that folks also replace their factory bolt body with a .701 PT&G bolt body that is precision ground form tool steel. this requires some turning and machining to make it fit properly.

There are several friction points between the trigger, trigger hanger, and sear that should also be deburred and polished.

The bolt lugs should be turned and lapped into 60% or better bilateral engagement.

During the same operation the bolt face should be machined.

For high presure cartridges the bolthead should have the firing pin hole centered and bushed.

I have not seen any significant difference in accuracy between barrels using the nut vs shouldered barrels. The nut just makes headspacing easy and barrels interchangeable between different actions.

There is no reason a Savage rifle can not shoot with the best and most expensive factory actions.

Nat Lambeth