Axis/Cabela's package ca 2016

[HowardC]

I purchased an Axis II XP heavy barrel used in 2018. Per Savage, it is an Axis XPII, sold as a 'package gun', manufactured in 2016. It has a Cabela's
3 x 12 x 40 scope on it with what appear to be Vortex vertical rings. I'm trying to ascertain who made the scope.
I've been to Riflescope-review and that site indicates it may be an "Alpha" model manufactured in China. Not too hard to believe if it was a 'package' rifle. I'm hoping someone in the forum has more information on this topic.
-West out

[Dave Hoback]

Either China, or Philippines maybe, makes the scope. And, they are of very low quality. (Like under $99). However, it will work…. OK enough, until it doesn’t one day. Look to replace it with better glass, when you are able. The rings are fine.

BTW, being made in either of the above countries does not in itself mean it’s bad. China is capable of making anything to as high of standards as anywhere else. They simply make products with the specs they are given. I use a Chinese scope. However it’s a very well made scope, by a Chinese manufacturer & under the licensed name for one of the high end Scope companies. And I love it. But the Savage combos have never come with any real quality optic. The best probably being the Bushnell 4-12x that was used in the past. My first Savage was a combo & had a Simmons 3-9x40 on it. It worked… but man was that a low quality scope. Not to mention, that was like almost three decades ago!

[HowardC]

Aye, thanks for the comments. Pretty much what I ascertained after a few hours searching online. The Vortex labeled scope rings gave me some false hope there for a minute.....

I've glassed bedded it in a Boyd's stock, and when it warms up in my shop, I'll do some work improving the profile of the stock and adding a grip cap extension. I've shot it some since restocking, but don't have a good load worked up yet. I'm partial to the lighter bullets, not going elk hunting any more. Maybe use some Speer 125 TNT's, since they work well in my 2506 and 223's.

Not sure I'll go for another scope, since SSS income leaves me a tad short of extra money. OTOH, I do have an old Burris 4x12 compact I could try on it. Eye relief is kinda critical, but there's a rail on the gun, so I have pretty good potential for scope mounting.

ennyway, thanks again and keep yer powder dry....

West out

[charlie b]

As long as the scope works for you it's good. I only shoot at the range these days so my scopes are higher power.

I do have a fond spot for cheap scopes. My first centerfire scope was a Kmart Tasco 3-9 scope. Paid $20 for it (included rings and mounts) back in the 80's. It served on 3 different rifles for me and is now on a .54cal inline muzzle loader that the guy uses for elk hunting. And one of my current scopes is a Vortex Diamondback 4-16. Nice optics for such an inexpensive scope.

[Dave Hoback]

The Diamondback is one of the fairly well made Chinese scopes. Most of the Vortex line are, as well as the bulk of Athlon, Riton, Arken & Primary Arms. Burris’ lower & midrange scope lines are made in Phillipines instead of China. But as I have said, things have drastically changed over the last 10+ years & continue even now. People who still believe ALL products from China are cheap-low quality, are unfortunately stuck in yester-year. It’s for us as consumers to research. Remember to, this entire blow up in the scope world is less than 20 years old. Less than that really. Most scopes made in the 90’s sucked, compared to todays standards. Pretty much all 1” tubes & choices of fat or thin duplex reticles… WOOHOO! Even the Mil-dot reticle was hard to find. Not to mention, forget clarity! I remember around 2005, ‘06, wanting either a Unertl 10x or a Leupold Mk4 10x more than anything. I would drool over them, but they were way outside my price range! The Marines used the Unertl until 2007, and the Army didn’t replace their sniper’s Leupold Mk4 until 2010! Look at either one of those scopes compared to modern scopes. They both have horrible feeling Turrets-mushy, unresponsive. And the glass is…, Meh. Today, there are many, yes, Chinese made scopes that are light years better than either of these. So, keep that in mind.

This is one thing that bugs me often. There are some out there I’ve come across on Forums, who act like everything we do & have today was the same in the 90’s, the 80’s & even earlier. From the quality of products, to things we can Gun Enthusiasts can do now. For instance: the ability of any enthusiast being able to build a rifle today! It didn’t happen in the 80’s! Or 90’s for that matter, save for a select few with known sources. I built my first AR15 in 2005… which is when this whole thing started. Only a couple years before then was also when the first InterWeb gun Talk Forums started! I was among the first! It was before 2005, sure. But only a couple years. I’ve just shook my head & laughed when some older guy has chimed in about about “posting in online gun Forums in 1997”, or “building his first AR15 in 1986” things like that over the years. No! You didn’t post online in 1997. Gun forums didn’t exist, and only a handful of people were online then. And NO, you didn’t build an AR-15 in 1986 unless you were by trade a gun builder then…. Anyway.. sorry. Just ranting

[charlie b]

But there were forums (message boards) back in the 80's. I participated in several of them and one was a gun board, another a 2nd amendment board. Another was a science technology board. It was all text based and was not real time. You'd download the latest thread posts, which took a few min at 300 and then 1200baud. Then read the messages and prepared a response. Then you uploaded your response.

And you are right, not very many people were 'on line' back then. This was before the WWW. We did email, but, it was on specific servers that were usually run by a company or agency and no open access was available. For example, the message boards each had their own server and you had to access it though their modem with a specific phone number and login sequence. The Saabre system that American Airlines came up with to reserve airline flights was done in a similar manner.

And just to make it interesting, most of those calls were long distance and what many would consider highway robbery rates these days. My 'online' time was limited to minutes a day, not hours. Not even counting that you were tying up the only phone line to your home. :)

But, yes, Chinese manufacturing has improved by leaps and bounds in the last couple of decades. When quality control is monitored closely they can exceed the performance of products made anywhere in the world. Unfortunately they only do that when the customer spends a lot of time and money holding those standards. Then the Chinese company takes the intellectual property and replicates it under another name, which is why many companies left China for the Phillipines, S Korea, etc.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, I’m not talking about those. They were private affairs and the only people involved were typically tech people. It wasn’t your typical Joe Schmos involved. And of of course, there was no interaction like today like you pointed out. Because the Web didn’t exist like you said. There was nothing to look at or show anyone. No directing others to this or that site or product. You could type an email about what you had to a single person. Then wait for your single reply. LOL! When you think back on it, it would have been easier & quicker just to call each other, LOL! But tech nerds who would go gay for Bill Gates thought it was so cool.

[charlie b]

It was the average schmo on those boards. There were almost 10,000 on one of the gun message boards. Response time to a message was a little slower since most people logged in once a day instead of spending all day in there. If you think about it, most people on the current forums don't log in everyday either. Some go days, weeks or months without participating. Since there were so few boards, the number of people stayed higher and a lot of information was shared. The difference was the total number of people participating was smaller, simply because not everyone had computers or used them that much.

But, if someone said they posted on a 'forum' back in the 80's, they probably did. Or they probably read about it back them. And, yes, there were a bunch of references to vendors and places to get stuff. Many vendors took part in those boards for that reason, same as today. No pictures to brag about, but, plenty to read.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, but they were bulletin boards. The first one goes back to the 1970’s.. “Community” something.. They were part of Usenet, which is probably what you remember? Our two interpretations of “average joe” could very well be vastly different. And I think it is. Weren’t you an Engineer Charlie? Did you by any chance go to Berkely? My family had a computer in 1985 because my sister won it in some competition. We were the only family which owned one I ever came in contact with; across dozens & dozens of neighborhoods & several different states on the East coast. But we were poor folk! We couldn’t afford to pay attention half the time.Lol! It was a crappy little Apple with like an 8” screen that we played Tetris on. We had one phone line in the house with a rotary phone and it certainly was never used for the computer. (Not that we had a clue what User Network even was during that time! But I get what you saying. My point was they were nothing like the first Forums in the early 2000’s. Which are the model that we still know them as today.

It was rudimentary, crude really. Like pretty much everything from 40 years ago. Hard enough today weeding through the BS when we can easily research things to discern fact from fiction. These private bulletin boards were for a select few. Even then if you were looking for an answer, good luck, because all you had were a guys words. No way to prove anything. Within a timely fashion I mean.) And even then there trolls & LIARS! There are things I miss from the 80’s. But I’m glad my computer era started in 1999.

[charlie b]

Yes, it was rudimentary and crude by today's standards. But, a lot of good information was shared and you could find out an awful lot on a variety of topics. Plenty of good arguing as well, just like today. It still means that when someone said they posted back in the 80's they probably are not lying about it.

And, yes, most 'poor' people did not have computers back then. And, yes, I am an engineer, but, back then I was a CPT and then a MAJ in the Army, with a wife and kids. Not a lot of disposable income. Not Berkley, West Point :) I remember one of the gun boards that had firemen, teachers, plumbers, construction guys, etc on it. So, yeah, average joes. Still does not change that the message boards back then were a viable method of sharing information.

I would say there were not as many trolls, percentage wise, as there is today. I only remember two, and they ended up booted from the systems pretty fast. And even today, all you have is someone's words. They can reference other sources, just like we used to on the msg boards to justify their position, but, when someone says, "I did this", you basically have to take their word for it or challenge it, just like the old days. :)

And they were like the early forums. Many of the forums grew from those earlier systems. The only real differences came when the computer and network connection speeds increased.