Which Trigger Replacement?

[ky-n]

What do you mean move it to the ON Position? Do you mean the Safety? You can adjust that. Was yours already an Accutrigger? What are you referring to working on with the Safety Bar?

The safety is stiff moving to the SAFE position, it moves to the OFF SAFE easily. The part I am calling the safety bar is this part:


The rifle is pre Accutrigger with a F41xxxx serial number.

[Dave Hoback]

Ok, yeah… I was thinking that. Well, I’m sure you already know that set screw needs adjusted to maintain the Bar staying level & parallel to the Trigger. Also, one thing I’m wondering: the Pre-Accutrigger Actions don’t have that tiny hole drilled for the leg of of Accutrigger spring, huh? (Photo of the spring on Accutrigger below) Did you drill a hole? Is the spring just resting against that leg not in any hole?

I circled the vertical leg that inserts in the hole. If you don’t have that hole, it could be the answer as the spring is being further preloaded & likely not very consistent.

[ky-n]

Ok, yeah… I was thinking that. Well, I’m sure you already know that set screw needs adjusted to maintain the Bar staying level & parallel to the Trigger. Also, one thing I’m wondering: the Pre-Accutrigger Actions don’t have that tiny hole drilled for the leg of of Accutrigger spring, huh? (Photo of the spring on Accutrigger below) Did you drill a hole? Is the spring just resting against that leg not in any hole?

I circled the vertical leg that inserts in the hole. If you don’t have that hole, it could be the answer as the spring is being further preloaded & likely not very consistent.

Tiny drill bit and very careful use of a Dremel made a nice little hole for it to sit in. I'll try to remember to get a pic of the installed trigger tomorrow

[LDSILLS]

The safety is stiff moving to the SAFE position, it moves to the OFF SAFE easily. The part I am calling the safety bar is this part:


The rifle is pre Accutrigger with a F41xxxx serial number.

I had the same issue with my old Accutrigger. It too was on a 12BvSS.

I originally thought I had a misalignment of the Safety Bar notches with the Safety Bar Travel spring. After several removals and inspections that was not the case.

Then I started playing with the Overtravel Screw. At first I was adjusting it with too much aggression. The Safety Bar either would not move to the safety position at all or if it would move to the safe position it would allow for firing.

Then I decided to go into fine adjustment mode. I gently moved the Overtravel Screw until it just touched the Safety Bar. When the Safety Switch would not move I would back the screw out less then a 1/16 of a turn. I continued do this until the Safety Switch covered up the red dot on the receiver and moved smove. All the time ensuring the trigger could not be pulled and allowing a fire. I moved the safety to center position and still no fire. Finally I got it. But again the screw was moved very little off the Safety Bar. Noe-the-less it was positioned off the Saftey Bar and "NOT" touching it.

Of course later on the internet I found info to ensure the Safety timing was correct for an accutrigger they recommended touching the Overtravel Screw to the Safety Bar and backing off ~1/4 turn. I suppose that is about where my Overtravel Screw sits.

What happens is the Overtravel Screw puts pressure on the back of the Safety Bar. Because of this the spring will inherently exert less pressure on the notch for Fire which is located on the front of the Safety Bar. When you move the safety switch forward the spring has to jump into the two remaining slots on the Safety Bar Thus when you move to the Safe position it hinders that jump if there is to much pressure on the back of the Safety Bar where the Safe Position Safety Bar notch is. It is not friction from the the Overtravel Screw to Safety Bar that controls the SAFETY.

Thus it's really not a true trigger Overtravel Screw, it's a Safety Adjustment screw. If you think of it that way instead of a means to stop the trigger from bottoming out. Adjustment makes more sense.

NOTE: This the Screw is free floating thus is will need the application of a good thread locking glue on it. NO RED LOCTITE!

[Dave Hoback]

Are you talking about an Accutrigger or a 3-screw trigger? Not sure which screw you are speaking of, but some of what you’re saying sounds a bit confusing. An Accutrigger has no Overtravel stop screw. It has a Trigger Spring Adjustment screw, and a Safety adjustment screw. The 3-screw trigger does have an Overtravel stop screw. There is the Sear Adjustment screw in front; the Safety adjustment screw in the rear & the screw in the middle is the Overtravel stop adjustment. It is a true Overtravel stop adjustment. If you you are referring to the screw in the Safety Bar, that is not an Overtravel Stop screw, nor is it a Safety adjustment screw. It is adjusted to maintain the height placement of the Bar and keeping it parallel to the Trigger. It does control smooth operation of the safety.

[ky-n]

Today I took everything apart, worked on the safety and it now is supper smooth moving to either position. Checked over the sear and trigger, there was really no flashing or burrs to be found, really surprisingly smooth for what it is. I did take a fine hone and gently rolled the edges in case there was something my calloused fingers could not feel but stayed away from the two critical ones. I also polished all the areas in the trigger bracket and sear that come in contact with one another plus the sides of the trigger at the pivot pin even though it does not come into contact with the trigger bracket thanks to the two .010 shims I added to eliminate most of the side to side movement. Oh and the spring is NOT compressed any at all, it is barely in contact with the receiver and fortunately has so far never failed to set properly. After all of that and some more dry firing it is breaking just shy of 16 oz., still a bit more than I would like but I can live with it. I cannot understand how others are getting the trigger down to single digits, not that I want it that low.

[Dave Hoback]

Not everyone is instantly getting single digit ounces with it. That’s a misconception. Your result after some more use and parts settling down are exactly as I thought. As it’s already come down considerably, I’m sure added use will bring it down further, until it reaches its full break in point.

However, don’t hoop & holler if it won’t reach 6oz on your particular setup. Remember, yours is a retrofit. Even so, I’ve come across more than a few Model 12 owners who’s target Accutriggers would not reach that magical 6 number! Once again, this is yet another reason I have never owned a trigger pull gauge. I setup my triggers to the point it feels good. I don’t try chasing some number in outer space, letting the gauge tell me if my trigger is adequate. LOL! Just not a fan. But, that’s just my point of view. Your results may vary.

Not everyone is instantly getting single digit ounces with it. That’s a misconception. Your result after some more use and parts settling down are exactly as I thought

By The Way…. ​Not for nothing, but you have the Trigger/Sear pin in backwards. The pin should be inserted on the Sear/Bolt Release Lever side. (Picture below)

[ky-n]

However, don’t hoop & holler if it won’t reach 6oz on your particular setup.

By The Way…. ​Not for nothing, but you have the Trigger/Sear pin in backwards. The pin should be inserted on the Sear/Bolt Release Lever side. (Picture below)

I do not want it in single digits that's just to low IMHO, just want it down as close as possible to what SAV-2 pull weight was. No problem reversing the pin, easy fix, I put it back the same way it came out of the previous trigger assuming it was correct.

Thanks for the help

[PhilC]

FWIW, I have 2 target AccuTriggers, one massaged by Fred the other a retrofit to a model 10 action by the previous owner, both are exceedingly smooth but neither will go to 6oz reliably. For my use I am quite content with their safe, consistent 8 - 9oz.

[Dave Hoback]

I do not want it in single digits that's just to low IMHO, just want it down as close as possible to what SAV-2 pull weight was. No problem reversing the pin, easy fix, I put it back the same way it came out of the previous trigger assuming it was correct.

Thanks for the help

I’m pick’n up what you’re put’n down, pard. I agree… not looking for single digit myself. A pound or a bit lighter seems right to me pretty much all the time. But then, again, I don’t use a gauge to measure so….eh I can honestly say, mine doesn’t feel like it’s 6oz. either, at the lowest setting. It’s definitely lighter than my worked over standard Accutrigger, but don’t know by how much. Although the Safety blade spring on my standard Accutrigger is lighter even than the Target Red blade & spring, but that’s a custom setup I did. One thing though, it feels nicer now with shims & especially the Overtravel Stop I added. I can’t stand all that extra Overtravel. BLAH!

[LDSILLS]

Are you talking about an Accutrigger or a 3-screw trigger? Not sure which screw you are speaking of, but some of what you’re saying sounds a bit confusing. An Accutrigger has no Overtravel stop screw. It has a Trigger Spring Adjustment screw, and a Safety adjustment screw. The 3-screw trigger does have an Overtravel stop screw. There is the Sear Adjustment screw in front; the Safety adjustment screw in the rear & the screw in the middle is the Overtravel stop adjustment. It is a true Overtravel stop adjustment. If you you are referring to the screw in the Safety Bar, that is not an Overtravel Stop screw, nor is it a Safety adjustment screw. It is adjusted to maintain the height placement of the Bar and keeping it parallel to the Trigger. It does control smooth operation of the safety.

Circled in red is the screw I am talking about. It can be adjusted and it's covered with a plastic plug. Once you remove the plastic plug it has an allen head that can be adjusted to set the safety timing. It works as I described above. I am sure many people think this is a Trigger Overtravel Screw as I have found no photos where its described.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Dave Hoback]

Right.. Ok. Just that you called it an Overtravel screw, & confused me what you meant. That is the Trigger Safety adjustment screw. I’ve never heard anyone call it an overtravel actually. But yes, you were correct in it’s operation.

One of my posts earlier, I actually showed how I added a True Overtravel Stop screw to my Target Accutrigger. I also included an Overtravel Stop in my standard Accutrigger jobs as well. My standard Accutrigger below using custom spring & set screw/Overstop.

[LDSILLS]

Installing my new Red Blade Target Trigger yesterday. Thought I would show you all this. Its my measured difference with micrometer of the of "OLD" Accutrigger vs "NEW" Target Red Blade trigger return
springs.

[IMG][/IMG]


I also was trying to determine other differences in between the "OLD" Accutrigger vs "NEW" Target Red Blade trigger. Har to see in the photo but it appears the "NEW" Target Red Blade trigger sear face angle is 15 degrees as measured with my Loupe Magnifier. The "OLD" Accutrigger trigger sear face is near 5 degrees. Note these are guesstimate as with my cataract ridden eyes I don't see like normal eyes. However there was a noticeable difference.

Picts not great nor is it accuate vs what I would align with just manipulation of the magnifier. I took it with my cell phone whilst holding everything steady. But its representative of what it looks like through the Loupe Jewelry Magnifier with Scale lens installed with sear in background.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Dave Hoback]

Yeah, we’ve discussed this before in the past. 15 degrees & I believe the standard Accutrigger is 25 degree escape angle. The springs are also thinner diameter wire for both compared to those of the standard Accutrigger.


Edit: Sorry, my bad. It’s the other way around. Standard is 15 degrees, Target is 25 degrees. But apparently, you need one of these in the picture to be able to tell the difference. None of this is from me directly. Just what’s been said here.

[LDSILLS]

Yeah, we’ve discussed this before in the past. 15 degrees & I believe the standard Accutrigger is 25 degree escape angle. The springs are also thinner diameter wire for both compared to those of the standard Accutrigger.


Edit: Sorry, my bad. It’s the other way around. Standard is 15 degrees, Target is 25 degrees. But apparently, you need one of these in the picture to be able to tell the difference. None of this is from me directly. Just what’s been said here.

Yeah, we’ve discussed this before in the past. 15 degrees & I believe the standard Accutrigger is 25 degree escape angle. The springs are also thinner diameter wire for both compared to those of the standard Accutrigger.


Edit: Sorry, my bad. It’s the other way around. Standard is 15 degrees, Target is 25 degrees. But apparently, you need one of these in the picture to be able to tell the difference. None of this is from me directly. Just what’s been said here.

Dave the nice thing is I am confirming I am on the right path. Also I found this post from 2018 you made!

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...r-modification

Sorry for not searching for a thread on sear angles and trigger sear groove depth. I know my photo doesn't do it justice but yes through the Loupe Magnifier I can determine an actual actual angle similar to the machine picture.


Lastly my Loupe magnifier is more than 25 years old,however I just did an internet search and you can get yourself one with similar reticles on amazon for $40.00. The new ones appear nicer as they are back lit.

[Rocketvapor]

Zoom camera and fractional degree rotation in Photoshop.
Pretty easy to measure angles to less than a degree using zoom.

[LDSILLS]

I changed my post. After some thought I was getting off subject with little value added....sorry!

[Rocketvapor]

Bought Elements 8, years back for $80 and moved it from old to new computer a couple times.
It gets used for lots of things.

Like removing frown lines from pictures of the wife :)
I take a lot of pictures and crop/resize/color/etc.

[Robinhood]

Zoom camera and fractional degree rotation in Photoshop.
Pretty easy to measure angles to less than a degree using zoom.

Some of the best photos posted on here in a long time.( at least from a technical perspective)

[charlie b]

I agree. Digital cameras have change a lot how we do things.

I've also used video to diagnose problems. Can edit them to very low speeds to go frame by frame. Or, in some cases run at higher speeds to see where a problem occurs.

[Rocketvapor]

A collimated view with an optical comparator gets rid of angle/parallax issues in view but good alignment with a macro focusing digital camera (even some good phones) is a quick way to help old eyes. Lighting and alignment are critical for sharp accurate images. Zoom allows you to change perspective and depth.
I like the version of Photoshop-Elements I have. Lacks some features but the image translation, rotation, and sizing are surprisingly accurate.
Got a label you can't read the small print? Snap, view on the big screen.

I don't know what camera/phone Dave uses but some of his pics are sharp.

[GaCop]

Is there any major difference in working on a Model 11 bottom bolt release standard accutrigger?

[pdog06]

Is there any major difference in working on a Model 11 bottom bolt release standard accutrigger?

Compared to what? And what type of “work”?

Obviously the sear is different but the triggers themselves should be the same as a top bolt release.

[Rocketvapor]

Those with HIGH trigger force, is it Blade Force, Trigger Force, or Drag?
My Finger is NOT as calibrated as some to feel so I use a Trigger Pull Gauge.

The spring scale gauge is fine for pulls in the 1+ pound pull but the Digital reads LIGHT pulls better.

The Blade force is applied through a lever at a reduced ratio to the Trigger.
To KNOW what your Trigger is doing it might be necessary to actually measure both.

What would be an appropriate Ratio of Blade to Total to be SAFE?
For example, an 8oz Blade force with force applied directly to the Trigger, and a 10oz Total force.
Is that getting close to tripping the Trigger?

[GaCop]

Compared to what? And what type of “work”?

Obviously the sear is different but the triggers themselves should be the same as a top bolt release.

Disregard. I thought the screw was fixed because of the sealant. This is the first accutrigger I've ever delt with. I know now to remove the sealant, Duh!