Who's shooting 445 Supermag? ...any good with 44mag ammo?

[J A XSP]

I've had a couple of different barrels in the 445 chambering and now have an SSK carbine barrel that seems to shoot reasonably well (haven't really found any loads that are as accurate as a factory 14" hand-rechamber that I used to have).
I know that there must be a few guys out there who have shot this round in the past or are currently loading for it. I'm wondering whether anyone has had decent luck shooting regular 44 mag ammo in theirs?

I have a small amount of loaded 44 mag ammo and a ton of brass and bullets that I wouldn't mind loading up to keep on hand. I have a hundred or more rounds of good 445 brass to work with so no problem working up "real" loads but it would be pretty cool to be able to count on shooting both. I've read a few opinions pro and con here and there but does anyone have any specific experience with 44 mag brass in the 445 chamber?

[FyrepowrX]

I tried briefly in my .445 carbine, and in a a couple of pistol length barrels...those were a 10" factory, a 14" factory, and later a 14" stainless custom by MGM.

My factory .445 barrels were underwhelmed with regular .44's, and produced pretty mediocre groups, but in all honestly, i didnt try too hard since i had other factory .44's that shot a bit better.

The 20" .445 i pack around is a TC custom shop with the usual excessively long throat... found by seating 265's & 300's way out , it shot noticeably better. I always assumed since it was long for a .445 chamber, the stubby .44's just didnt cope well with the excessive jump & the long freebore....also found the light bullets shot to a very different POI, my barrel has no brake & with the full power loads it printed quite a lot higher even at close range with the increased muzzle flip.

That .445 was an accidental find at a gun show...it was one of the worst-fouled barrels i'd ever seen, and was filthy...always assumed someone had been trying to launch soft lead bullets at warp speed, and gave up on it when it no longer would keep them on a sheet of paper. I'm glad they did, after a whole lotta scrubbing, it shot great, once it got fed heavies seated out long.

Does your SSK barrel do well with 180-240 gr bullets? Always been intrigued with that thought....bet 200/240's at 2000fps+ would be a show stopped on critters.

[J A XSP]

I tried briefly in my .445 carbine, and in a a couple of pistol length barrels...those were a 10" factory, a 14" factory, and later a 14" stainless custom by MGM.

My factory .445 barrels were underwhelmed with regular .44's, and produced pretty mediocre groups, but in all honestly, i didnt try too hard since i had other factory .44's that shot a bit better.

The 20" .445 i pack around is a TC custom shop with the usual excessively long throat... found by seating 265's & 300's way out , it shot noticeably better. I always assumed since it was long for a .445 chamber, the stubby .44's just didnt cope well with the excessive jump & the long freebore....also found the light bullets shot to a very different POI, my barrel has no brake & with the full power loads it printed quite a lot higher even at close range with the increased muzzle flip.

That .445 was an accidental find at a gun show...it was one of the worst-fouled barrels i'd ever seen, and was filthy...always assumed someone had been trying to launch soft lead bullets at warp speed, and gave up on it when it no longer would keep them on a sheet of paper. I'm glad they did, after a whole lotta scrubbing, it shot great, once it got fed heavies seated out long.

Does your SSK barrel do well with 180-240 gr bullets? Always been intrigued with that thought....bet 200/240's at 2000fps+ would be a show stopped on critters.

thanks for the response, Gerald.

I used to have a 14" 44 mag barrel that was throated long like that. It was quite fine with 240s but when I seated 300 XTPs out to the second crimp groove, that thing was magic. It would hold MOA and better at 100 yards routinely. I'd have it still but my hands just can't really take enough hours of hard recoil to make a range session work. :)

When I got this 445 carbine barrel I was thinking that I'd get a 44 mag but SSK Haus of Arms had the 44 only in 18 inch and this 445 in 20". I'd prefer longer yet, but the 20 was more appealing to me and I've always liked the 445 so it was an easy sell. This one seems to be breaking in allright and it likes 240s just fine as long as they're XTPs. I think I tried some 180s but haven't found a load. It seems to shoot best with the 225 FTX bullets. I've worked on loads with slower rifle powder than is usually called for (H4198) and with a case packed full, it very accurate and seems to be a reasonable mid-range velocity for that chambering. I hope to do some chrony work with some of those loads. With 1680, the XTPs are quite accurate and I know the velocity is up there. That powder pushes the 225s along at a very brisk pace, as well. A snortful of H110 makes for quite snappy loads with any 240 grain bullet but I don't think I've found any loads with it that are particularly accurate in this barrel.

Regarding shooting the 44 mag in this barrel, I sort of just feel bad not having anything that'll allow me to use all the bullets and 44 mag brass that I have laying around and I like what that round does in a carbine length. I may try a few and see if I see anything that makes it worth the extra cleaning in chamber and throat area but I have a feeling that I'll end up looking for a 44mag carbine barrel just because. :) If you have an extra 44mag around gathering dust, let me know. :)

[FyrepowrX]

Like you, i also experimeted with slower than usual burn rate powders and found mine loved heavy bullets with Reloder7; i lost a few FPS but the sub-MOA groups more than made up for it. The older versions of the 265FTX and the 300 XTP's, both used to have 2 cannelures...i seated them in the bottom groove to gain case capacity. Last time i opened a box of 265's they went back to 1 cannelure though...not sure how many they have now, as i stashed back a couple hundred pcs years ago when i found that barrel liked them.

Dont remember how fast my 265gr loads were running, will try to bring that out next time the chrony is set up.

I had been wanting a 21" tapered carbine in .44mag for ages, about 2 years ago i finally found a barrel at auction, and won that one...i stuck a 4x with heavy duplex on it, though thinking about changing that to a 2x7. It shoots 240's pretty well.

i have not tried the 225 FTX yet...think i will do so, have had pretty good terminal performance with FTX's in other sizes.

[J A XSP]

Like you, i also experimeted with slower than usual burn rate powders and found mine loved heavy bullets with Reloder7; i lost a few FPS but the sub-MOA groups more than made up for it. The older versions of the 265FTX and the 300 XTP's, both used to have 2 cannelures...i seated them in the bottom groove to gain case capacity. Last time i opened a box of 265's they went back to 1 cannelure though...not sure how many they have now, as i stashed back a couple hundred pcs years ago when i found that barrel liked them.

Dont remember how fast my 265gr loads were running, will try to bring that out next time the chrony is set up.

I had been wanting a 21" tapered carbine in .44mag for ages, about 2 years ago i finally found a barrel at auction, and won that one...i stuck a 4x with heavy duplex on it, though thinking about changing that to a 2x7. It shoots 240's pretty well.

i have not tried the 225 FTX yet...think i will do so, have had pretty good terminal performance with FTX's in other sizes.

I sort of wish I'd hung on to my stash of 300 gr XTP bullets (pretty sure they ended up on your reloading bench, if I recall :) ). The 445 barrel I have is throated pretty standard but I can seat bullets out past the crimp groove and have a little extra capacity for the slower powder. Your Re7 is just about the same rate as my H-4198 but I bet it packs in the case a little better and more will fit. I'm planning to set up a chrony at my son's place when it cools off a little and checking the velocity of my best H4198/225 FTX loads. It'll be interesting to see what that stuff is doing. I like the notion of that 225 FTX bullet moving a little slower than the 445 is capable of but it may hold up quite well. I think the expansion velocity range is up to 2000 fps. At full potential speed in the 445, a close range shot on a big animal might be a little problematic in terms of explosive expansion but any reasonable yardage would probably make a terminal velocity right in the sweet spot. I caught them "on sale" and stocked up, so I'll keep loading them. :)

I just noticed that there's a 44 mag 24" in stock at EABCO...It's going to be really tempting to snag that. :D

[FyrepowrX]

Back a long time ago, i also played with the Sierra 250gr FPJ bullet...in 44mags they reminded me of hard cast bullets, but at .445supermag & .444Marlin speeds, they do expand without blowing up. The downside is that Sierra has gotten awfully proud of their pistol bullets, to the point i'm not experimenting with 'em as much. I guess in the big scheme of things, a hundred bullets goes a long way for hunting use, but there is still that "ouch" factor up front. (i also later tried the Sierra .357FPJ in my .357max carbine, and the .41FPJ in my .414 carbine...same good results.)

I've suspected CFE-Blk might be of use in the .445, with its density powder compression should not be an issue, and i also wanted to burn some Vihtavuori N120 in a .445 test run...problem is that i usually end up with more test projects than time.

Cant remember where i got this data; 445 data with parameters set to compute 1800fps loads with 240's....but N120 produced fairly low pressures in doing so. Wonder what it would yield when taken to higher pressures? Those loads do show N120 was just over 100% fill density, but the way you and i are seating 'em out way long, we might have a little more room to play. Too many barrels, so little time....

Deer probably aint gonna notice the difference either way, but this stuff is fun to play with.

[FyrepowrX]

More .445SuperMag gun-rambling...its almost deer season & i'm getting twitchy.

Back several years ago, i was doing my usual fall-woods-loafing, which involves cruising around checking for deer sign, noting where new scrapes pop up, finding rubs, actual sightings, running trail cameras, etc...all of which is part of the fun...i'm pretty well eat-up with this stuff.

I get down to the farm a day early, run a pile of trail cameras (usually have 15-20 out), swap out SD cards, come back to the cabin & start running SD cards through the little card reader on my tablet...and this one appears. Yowza!



He was coming off a ridge that is almost always loaded with acorns, and it is a hot spot. (Last year i ended up the season with a double on does, using the 25/35 Carbine. Probably shot a dozen or more deer off that ridge over the years.)

He was headed down towards a couple of food plots, so i quickly made plans, jumped on the 4wheeler to fetch a climbing stand, and the next morning i was perched in a craggly tree watching that trail. And...i saw nothing. The weather was awful, with winds blowing 25-30MPH, slight drizzle, and i was the only living critter stupid enough to be out in it. Tree was swaying back and forth like crazy. Didn't even see a bird or a squirrel. Evening also was lousy.

Next morning was clear, calm...surely deer would be moving. I set up several hundred yards away into a more open area near the food plots he was headed towards....left the .445supermag in camp & took the 25x30/30 Ackley Carbine, and after a whole pile of does came in, i filled a doe tag that morning with a very plump large mature doe.

After the deer processing chores, and with the doe in the cooler, i kept thinking about that ridge...i have a ladder up there about 150 yards or so from where that buck was in the photo. I left camp early that afternoon, took the 4wheeler at first, but parked it and snuck in the last 1/4 mile or so, following the north fence to keep my scent out of the area. I was in the ladder and quietly waiting about 4 hours before dark. This time is was the .445supermag.

As evening came on, i heard deer..one snorted a few hundred yards away, but it wasnt at me. Coyote maybe? Was just glad deer were moving.
Everyone who has sat in the fading light on a quiet crisp evening has head the sounds...squirrels, birds, deer. Squirrels that sounds like deer. Deer that sound like squirrels...armadillos are the worst & sound like a whole heard of deer. But every little sound gets my nerves tingling.

I head something, but not sure what...more squirrels? Finally spotted the flash of white that was a deer, took a quick look though the glass & saw the curve of a back, the outline of a long beam...could not be sure it was the big one, but the body size & shape & rack mass said it was a good buck regardless. The .445 has a Leupold short tube 1.75-6x on top...my favorite carbine glass. While walking i turn it down low, and in the tree its cranked up to 6x...i had it centered for a shoulder shot.

Funny, when deer are in the crosshairs, the deafening boom doesnt sound as loud to me.

He is slammed down like a lightning bolt hit him...not a twitch. I reloaded instantly, brought up the scope to watch if a second shot was required...it was not, and after a minute that lasted forever, i ran down the ladder like the squirrels i had heard all evening...and realized my gun was still in the stand. Guess i was a bit frazzled.

I went back up and retrieved it, and made my way over to him. The sound i had heard was him making a rub on a spindly tree , in the edge of a sumac thicket; the fresh green tree-bark still on his bases. Later in the dressing chores, i found the 265gr FTX had devastated the top of the onside shoulder, then deflected upwards a bit & even shattered the spine above that...top of the offside shoulder was broken. I doubt he ever heard the gun go off.

Since then, the .445 has accounted for a few more deer, all with the 265FTX...its kept working so well that i kind of stop experimenting, though the inner gun nerd in me has an urge to try a few more powders, just to say i did.

For a long time...and still, occasionally, when hunting timber...i was pack a 45/70 carbine. In fact, it'll get shot some in the next few weeks to check zero. But....that .445superMag sure is a humdinger of a hammer.

[J A XSP]

Dang, man! Great deer and great story! Now I feel riled up and eager for hunting season! :) Still too hot to really get in the mood but we'll get a little cooler weather at some point, I suppose. :)
This makes me even more antsy to get to the range, though. I've got a fair number of the most promising XTP and FTX loads. I see in your data that H4198 is loading about 100% at just over 33 grains. I've loaded 33.5 under the 240 XTP and 34.5 under the 225 FTX, both looking plenty accurate so far. I made a powder dropper to help with compressed loads and I can probably sneak another half grain or more under the 240 without pushing the pressure too much.

I'm like you...I like the loading projects as much as anything and finding the perfect load just means a good batch of accurate hunting ammo to shoot and reason to start looking for another perfect load with a different bullet and powder combination. :)

I may yet talk myself into that 44 mag barrel and shoot them both for a while to decide which really suits me and then have Troy at Bullberry make me up a nice barrel in whichever chambering wins. :)

[Rooterpig]

I have a 20 inch 445 super mag. MGM.
The only thing Ive got to shoot consistently decent is the Barnes 225 bullet. Xpb. About 1.5 at 100. Sometimes a little smaller.

[J A XSP]

I have a 20 inch 445 super mag. MGM.
The only thing Ive got to shoot consistently decent is the Barnes 225 bullet. Xpb. About 1.5 at 100. Sometimes a little smaller.

Yeah, I'm getting around that so far and maybe a little better with a barrel that's just getting "broken in". I hope that I can break the MOA barrier consistently with it at 100 yards when it's all said and done. I have a 2-7 scope on it and I'm used to shooting targets with a little more magnification and that hinders me just a bit. Plenty of 3-shot groups at 50 yards are coming in at just over a half inch so the potential is there.

[HHI6818]

I have a SSK 14 inch stainless Contender barrel and a MGM 24 inch stainless. I bought the Encore barrel for my son when he started deer hunting. Ohio allows straight wall rifle cartridges and since I had 445 SM brass & dies made sense to buy rifle barrel in the same caliber.

Shot this buck last season.

[J A XSP]

I have a SSK 14 inch stainless Contender barrel and a MGM 24 inch stainless. I bought the Encore barrel for my son when he started deer hunting. Ohio allows straight wall rifle cartridges and since I had 445 SM brass & dies made sense to buy rifle barrel in the same caliber.

Shot this buck last season.

Awesome!! I shot enough 445 in a 14" barrel (and even in a 10" - ouch!!) to convince me that a carbine is a better platform for some rounds.
I was out at my son's place yesterday doing some shooting and chrony, I didn't shoot many of the 445 rounds that I've been working with but managed to get a reading on a couple. Out of a 20" barrel a standard load of 1680 is pushing a 240 grain XTP at 2050. That's moving right along. :)

A good, accurate load that I've developed off-book using H4198 powder and the 225 FTX bullet is giving me over 1800. That's not a whole lot over what a 44 mag will do with that bullet but it seems like a useful load. So far I haven't gotten a really accurate load with the FTX and typical 445 powder ( I only have 1680 and H110) and the fast rifle powder seems to work pretty well.

[J A XSP]

Here's an update to my 445 adventures...

I've been shooting the 445 SSK barrel with some success in terms of accuracy and have, since starting this conversation, acquired a couple of 44 mag barrels to compare - an SSK 18", though I wasn't convinced that I'd like the shorter length and an EABCO 24", which I like the look and feel of but really is too long for the cartridge.

As I worked with the 44 mag barrels and continued to shoot the 445 (especially working with the slower powders), a few facts emerged: 1) 44 mag in an 18" barrel with a linear compensator screwed on the end of it is more appealing than I thought it would be, in terms of looks and handling. 2) 44 mag in a longer barrel is nice to shoot but velocity isn't better and actually seems to suffer a little with some loads. 3) 445 in a 20" barrel isn't particularly fun to shoot and isn't as efficient as I'd like in burning slow powder consistently. 4) I definitely don't need all 3 barrels. My plan was to figure out the best 44 barrel and hang on the 445 SSK. The 44 Mag SSK was starting to show signs of being the right choice for the 44 Mag chambering but I still really liked the look and feel of the longer EABCO barrel. I started thinking about the 2 or 3 successful 44 Mag to 445 conversions that I'd done on Contender pistol barrels and a different plan emerged.

I wondered if it might be cool to keep the 44 Mag SSK, sell off the 445 SSK and convert the EABCO to 445 Supermag. I talked to Troy at Bullberry to see what it might cost to have him do the work. He doesn't do rechambers anymore but it turned out that he had a spare reamer that he never used and was willing to let me borrow it to do the work. Long story short (maybe too late for that), I recently completed the task of reaming out the EABCO barrel for 445 and have been able to do a little testing on it. Early indications point to a successful outcome.

The new chamber on the EABCO is perfect. The throat is a little longer than the SSK 445 chamber but it seems to be useful in seating bullets out a little for increased case capacity for slow powder and a possible slight decrease in peak pressures. I haven't done a lot of accuracy testing yet but I've seen MOA potential in some 50 yard 2-shot groups. The longer barrel is very appealing to me on a couple of levels and I definitely like the feel of it, especially when it comes to handling the fairly sharp recoil of the 240 grain XTPs at 2000+ fps velocities.

As a follow-up to the original question of this thread, I tried a few 44 mag loads in the new 445 chamber - it seems to have a more tapered leade type throat that's a little more long-jump friendly for the shorter cases. The results were pretty under-whelming...nowhere near the accuracy that I can get out of the dedicated 44 Mag chamber. No need to bother with it, though it is sort of handy to carry one barrel for some plinking sessions and have some light loads to play with and save the shoulder a little punishment. :)

I'm happy with the way things have turned out and as soon as I do a little more accuracy testing to confirm that everything is as good as it seems to be I'll be selling off my SSK 445 barrel. It's shown itself to be quite accurate and is just at the point of being well broken-in so somebody's going to get a nice, proven barrel out of it. :)