Axis II .223

[beefsupreme]

Hello,

I've posted about this before but thought I'd throw this out there. I have a Savage Axis II heavy barrel in .223 that I got for a steal years ago. I thought I would enjoy shooting it, but honestly just cannot get comfortable behind it. I dropped it in a mdt oryx chassis and found it fed much better with the mdt aics magazines. But, again, after taking it out to shoot, I just cannot get comfortable.

I am right-handed but have to shoot rifle lefty because I'm right eye dominant. I don't know if it's that or what. I have a Savage Mk II tr that I am super comfortable behind and can ding 2 inch steel at 100 yards regularly.

In short, I think I've put too much into this rifle hoping for something comfortable I can shoot a ways out but it just isn't working out as I had hoped. I'm wanting something that I don't have to switch stocks and don't have to work on too much. I used to love to tinker but due to life and work, just don't have the time anymore. I just want something I can take out to shoot and be fairly accurate with and enjoy. I chose 223 because it is/was cheaper when I purchased the rifle and I liked to shoot a lot. I shoot less nowadays because of my life situation.

Just looking for recommendations - I'm considering selling the axis or trade it towards something I really like in the $1000 or so range. Been looking at Tikka and considering an AR - I've never owned an AR and am unsure if it will be comfortable and fun. Thanks much!

[Dave Hoback]

Hold on… you said you’re Right handed & Right eye dominant… so why do you have to shoot LEFT ​handed?


Did you mean to say you are actually Cross-Eye dominant? If that’s the case, I would still shoot right handed. Simply close your left eye. We never trained to shoot other handed due to cross eye dominance. Your hand orientation takes precedence unless you are blind in one I as I am. (Thankfully, it’s my left eye which is blind.)

Honestly I think you may need to work on fundamentals. I’ve been shooting since I was 12. And I’ve been involved in every aspect of the hobby. I worked in firearms retail & range management, I’ve been involved in shooting competition & I was an instructor. For a long time I’ve been able to shoot a firearm very accurately; any firearm! While I’m not the “best”, I can still hit any target I want. If 10 guns are in front of me, I’ll shoot all 10 with reasonable accuracy. If I shoot a firearm and show extreme inaccuracy, something is wrong with the weapon.

So, something is wrong with your Axis, or again, I’m going to recommend working on fundamentals.

[beefsupreme]

Yep - that's correct - I'm left-eye dominant but right handed. Sorry about that. I'm obviously not as experienced as you but I've been shooting for a while - but just don't get to practice like I once did and so just am unsure as to how to proceed. I think my fundamentals were solid - but seem to have lost something. Shooting the mark ii rifle in 22lr goes well as do handguns in 9mm and 22lr.

[Dave Hoback]

Try practicing what I said. Shoot right handed as you normally would and simply close your left eye. Wearing an eye patch is a good training tool as well. Now, if you simply wish to continue shooting left handed, you might want to look into Left Hand firearms. Another thing I always frowned on when instructing people was the misconception that accuracy and comfort go together. In pistol training, I quite used to reseting shooter’s individual Grips constantly! And would continuously hear them utter “but that doesn’t feel comfortable. This feels better!”, as they would transition back to either the “Cup & Saucer”, “low & thumb covered” or “Thumb behind the slide” grips. (All of which are incorrect!) My answer to which was was always, “if your grip of the firearm is comfortable, you are likely gripping incorrectly.” So comfort is not something I look for.

But if you simply do not like how the Axis feels or performs, then getting a new rifle is likely the best answer. The AR15 is an exceptional piece of hardware. I’ve been an AR advocate since 2005, only building them. Never purchased a manufacturer’s piece. And I’ve built more than most. So I do highly recommend them…especially if you’ve never had one! They are fun, accurate and contrary to some un-educated ignorance, quite robust. But, this is a Savage Forum & the Axis section. So if you have any questions, I’d encourage asking in our “Non—Savage firearms Discussion” section, or message individuals personally.
I will say, there are places you can go to try one out first, to see if you enjoy it. Before shelling out more money.

[charlie b]

My father-in-law was left dominant and right handed. He shot left handed for his whole life, including pistol competition in the Navy. He never liked bolt rifles for that reason. Just too hard to find LH bolt guns in those days.

Are you shooting from a bench or prone or different positions?

You have tried the two basic rifle stocks, conventional and chassis. The AR series is basically a chassis stock rifle. The chassis are nice due to the adjustments available. Could it be you just haven't got the MDT adjusted correctly for you? I've just never like a chassis stock. One day I might try one again but until then I have my wood stock rifles. One of those is an Axis with a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock.

FWIW, you need to know why you don't feel comfortable with it. You do ok with the rimfire tr. Is it just the weight or weight distribution? Length of pull? Cheek rest position? Texture? Or is it just the increased recoil over the rimfire?

First, I'd try adjusting the MDT and see if that changes things. Then I'd find a good shop where someone could help you by trying different stocks. DO NOT buy another stock or gun until you figure out what you really need/like.

[Dave Hoback]

By the way…

I got it

[beefsupreme]

Thanks much.

[beefsupreme]

My father-in-law was left dominant and right handed. He shot left handed for his whole life, including pistol competition in the Navy. He never liked bolt rifles for that reason. Just too hard to find LH bolt guns in those days.

Are you shooting from a bench or prone or different positions?

You have tried the two basic rifle stocks, conventional and chassis. The AR series is basically a chassis stock rifle. The chassis are nice due to the adjustments available. Could it be you just haven't got the MDT adjusted correctly for you? I've just never like a chassis stock. One day I might try one again but until then I have my wood stock rifles. One of those is an Axis with a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock.

FWIW, you need to know why you don't feel comfortable with it. You do ok with the rimfire tr. Is it just the weight or weight distribution? Length of pull? Cheek rest position? Texture? Or is it just the increased recoil over the rimfire?

First, I'd try adjusting the MDT and see if that changes things. Then I'd find a good shop where someone could help you by trying different stocks. DO NOT buy another stock or gun until you figure out what you really need/like.

I'm shooting primarily from a bench. It might be that I haven't adjusted the MDT quite right for me yet. I just put a fixed 12x SWFA scope on top and am getting accustomed to that too.

With the rimfire tr, it's all about the cheek rest position - really, I think that's the issue with the MDT - trying to find that good position with the cheek and eye relief with the scope.

Yeah... I'm not going to buy anything else until I visit a shop. I was at Brownells earlier this year and didn't realize how much customer service they would be willing to help with onsite. When I'm back, I think I might take it out there and see if they could help.

Thanks.

[beefsupreme]

By the way…

I got it

Always made me laugh

[charlie b]

Yes, that check weld is a key fitting point. Not sure if it applies, but, I find that each rifle 'sits' on the bags differently. May need to add or remove some bag height. Your larger scope will change the form some as well. Mix it around a bit and see if you can get comfortable. The chassis has a lot of adjustment so don't be afraid to experiment.

Your idea about visiting Brownell's is a good one too.

[prdatr]

Dominant eye thing is a bunch of hoodo. I shoot both rifle and bow right handed and am left eye dominant so find something else to blame it on. I shot High Power Rifle Silhouette for many years and shot a Bull Elk at 400 yards last year.
Just practice. You are either a good shot or your not.

[Dave Hoback]

Dominant eye thing is a bunch of hoodo. I shoot both rifle and bow right handed and am left eye dominant so find something else to blame it on. I shot High Power Rifle Silhouette for many years and shot a Bull Elk at 400 yards last year.
Just practice. You are either a good shot or your not.

It’s absolutely real if you keep your eyes open. (Which they should be if able.) I always shot both eyes open. Until my Left eye was blinded. (But thankfully I’m not cross eye dominant) But with a scoped rifle, being Right handed & cross eye dominant, it’s easy enough to close the Left eye or block with with an eye patch.

[tomme boy]

I am the same way. Left eye dominant. But do most things right handed. But lots of thing left handed as well. It just depends on what I am doing. So I consider myself ambidextrous. Rifle and shotgun I shoot right handed. But pistol I shoot right handed but left eye sighting. I write left handed.

[Dave Hoback]

I am the same way. Left eye dominant. But do most things right handed. But lots of thing left handed as well. It just depends on what I am doing. So I consider myself ambidextrous. Rifle and shotgun I shoot right handed. But pistol I shoot right handed but left eye sighting. I write left handed.

That is not cross eye dominant. You are Left handed & you are choosing to shoot a pistol with your right hand (I certainly can’t guess as you write with your left!) But how do you eight the rifle pistol? Especially through a scope? You said you use your dominant Left eye shooting pistol, although it’s right handed. Do you then close your Left eye rifle/shotgun?

Also with the pistol… how exactly are you sighting with your Left eye? Are you shifting your arm diagonally to the Left, lining up the sights with your Left eye? Or are you turning head more, thus trying to move your Left eye more behind the sights? I ask because they are both flawed.

[charlie b]

FWIW, there is a degree of eye dominance. My brother is equal. He throws right handed (from training that way), but, he can swing a bat from both sides. He does shoot right hand, right eye but can switch when he wants as well (good for barricade shooting). I am right handed and right eye dominant, but, it is not by much. I can 'choose' to use my left eye when needed. I used to be pretty good shooting with my left hand only.

And yes, if you close the 'off' eye then dominance does not matter much. Many of us were trained to keep both eyes open especially when using open sights. But, even with a drill sgt yelling at me I still closed the off eye when shooting.

[Dave Hoback]

“Eyes Open” is the correct way to shoot anything. Except* in Rifle shooting when the shooter is cross eye dominant or in my case, Blind in my non dominant eye. For pistol shooting, eye dominance is of no concern. If a shooter is Right handed (or Left) & Cross eye dominant, tilting the pistol to ether the 11 O'clock or to the 1 O’clock (depending on Lead hand), will position the sights in front of the Dominant eye for accurate shooting.

No, I’m not talking about Gansta-sideways shooting. That is just silly. Indexing 1-hour back or forward from 12 O’clock is a slight angle & 100% fixes the “normal” 2” horizontal shift of POA to POI Cross Eye dominant shooters very typically face. If you are Cross eye Dom., give it a try. You’ll be surprised. (Again, this is for pistol shooting.)

[prdatr]

I shoot a pistol with both eyes open, open sights or scoped.
Sure you "CAN" shoot a rifle either scoped or open sights with both eyes open but only one eye is in focus. I'm pretty much done with this conversation. Just do what you "Think" works for you.

[tomme boy]

Shooting pistols I shift my hold and tilt my head. I shoot shotguns right handed with both eyes open. Rifle with my right eye. I can bat either left or right. I do not like shooting anything left handed. When I work on things I am mainly right handed. I even chew on my left side.

Flawed? I don't thinks so. I have won so many pistol bowling pin shoots it is not even funny. When any of the people I know what to see how a gun shoots they come get me to see. The DNR range officer here always brings people over to me that are having issues shooting their guns. I usually can get them shooting well in about a half hour.

Don't believe everything you read in magazines or hear from some wiz bang on youtube that thinks they can shoot and tries to tell you how you are doing everything wrong. Our local Police chief used to be a top contender in Bianchi Cup. He taught the Massad Ayoob pistol course for our carry license back before Iowa was shall issue. After the class time and 8 hours of range training he asked me about my shooting. I asked WHY? He goes on to tell me he has NEVER had someone shoot a 100% on the test session. And that he has taught all over the country and several other countries. And he could not believe that I shot a 100% with the gun I was using. It was a Llama 1911 in 45acp that I tightened up the slide and hand fitted a barrel bushing and a longer link. Also 200gr SWC bullets I cast and loaded. I did the trigger at 2lbs.

So whatever you say about me doing stuff flawed....... I will keep doing it as it works.

[Dave Hoback]

You know how to shoot. No one needs to tell you how to do anything with a firearm. When a shooter becomes seasoned, they take on their own style. Sometimes grip, sometimes stance, whatever. Let me ask you this: could you hold a pistol sideways, all gangsta style, and still be accurate? Yeah… so could I. As dumb as is, you could likely hold a pistol upside down & still be accurate. (Miculek actually tested this.) My point is, shooters who know how to shoot, can do as they wish.

Now, if you or I were teach a new shooter to shoot sideways, simply because we can, would be quite wrong. When dealing with new shooters or shooters having problems with consistency, then going back to the fundamentals is the correct means. It always starts with the fundamentals. Shooters may adapt their techniques over time as they master it, or as criteria changes in one’s life. I had to adapt when I lost sight in my eye. Then again when my Left arm/hand was paralyzed. Which was no problem because I was already a seasoned shooter.

There is a difference in thinking between Shooters & Instructors. All Instructors can shoot. But not all Shooters can instruct. When teaching a new shooter or one having consistency issues, the Instructor should not teach how they do things. Only fundamentals should be. They should be cornerstoned in fact! I always shot pistol in a modified weaver hybrid stance, but I wouldn’t teach that to new shooters. I always taught standing Isosceles.

[beefsupreme]

Yes, that check weld is a key fitting point. Not sure if it applies, but, I find that each rifle 'sits' on the bags differently. May need to add or remove some bag height. Your larger scope will change the form some as well. Mix it around a bit and see if you can get comfortable. The chassis has a lot of adjustment so don't be afraid to experiment.

Your idea about visiting Brownell's is a good one too.

Thanks much. Think I'm going to mess around a bit and see how it goes.

[beefsupreme]

I used to shoot with both eyes open and honestly I'm shooting so less these days due to work, I think my skills are fading and just struggling to figure all that out.

[charlie b]

Skills can fade, and we change as well. I can't shoot a pistol one handed anymore due to tremors. I also have to use a different grip and stance to balance the effects in my hands.

[tomme boy]

Skills can fade, and we change as well. I can't shoot a pistol one handed anymore due to tremors. I also have to use a different grip and stance to balance the effects in my hands.

100% agree with this.

It was funny. I took my FIL to get his carry Lic. under the newer law. He had tremors bad in his hands. But he still shot better than the whole class. He has had them so long he said he just got used to shooting like that. He passed the shooting portion with a 87%. You had to have 75% to pass. Half the class had to retake it as they could not shoot. Didn't help 3 of them brought a Jennings 9mm's

[Dave Hoback]

100% agree with this.

It was funny. I took my FIL to get his carry Lic. under the newer law. He had tremors bad in his hands. But he still shot better than the whole class. He has had them so long he said he just got used to shooting like that. He passed the shooting portion with a 87%. You had to have 75% to pass. Half the class had to retake it as they could not shoot. Didn't help 3 of them brought a Jennings 9mm's

And that was better than everyone there? Good grief! Yeah, the low level of accuracy needed to pass these things is crazy! 75% to pass& they call that successful. Think about it, a person walks up/down the steps 100 times and FALLS 25 times of those trips. Would you consider them successful at walking up & down the steps? Crazy. Ah well, my State doesn’t even have a test to take. Which is actually more in line with the constitution. But I digress.

[tomme boy]

We are Constitutional carry now. But not then. I still keep my permit as I live across the street from a school. Without it I would not be able to carry in my own yard!