Reply With Quoteyep
FYI - If any of you guys are scope hunting, you may want to try out the EP5.
Seriously impressive scope.
I caught one of the MOA models on sale for $399 and snagged it.
Only downside is the weight, but the clarity is way way up there.
yep
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
A friend bought one a while ago. Here is his thread on it.
https://www.coueswhitetail.com/forum...-arken-scopes/
Indeed, CHINESIUM scopes have come a long way. In materials, craftsmanship & performance. Along with the Arken, Vortex & Athlon continue having very capable models. Some of the Riton series look promising & I am still completely satisfied with my US Optics TS-20. Lastly, Bushnell recently released their Match Pro 5-30x56, which could be up for best scope under $1000. I’ll say this: IMHO, it’s becoming more difficult to unload scopes at. $2000, $3000 & more. When you can get into glass that will deliver 90%+ of the performance of a the very best, it’s a much different world from around 2015 and back.
Originally Posted by prdatr
Nothing about the EP5
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I have a buddy that got a SH4 and it is pretty good for the $300 he paid. Another buddy got a EP5 and again it was good for the price. Good enough glass, good tracking and absolutely worth every penny they cost. I guess when i see people saying that they "beat scopes that cost twice as much", that is when i start rolling my eyes.
I’ve seen all Matt Tibor’s reviews on the Arkens and he is both specific & honest. He does more involved testing reviews than anyone. And he gave the EP5 a A+ across the board. Now he’s a self proclaimed scope snob & loves his German glass. Although he did admit that if scopes like the Arken EP5 had been around when he got into the game, he may never have started buying high dollar glass. It’s like I was saying, the Chinese scope market has evolved into an far different animal than from just several years ago. And while not better overall than some top tier scopes, it certainly is better for the money! Take any of those costing 4-6 TIMES that of the Arken. Are any of the top tier pieces even twice as good, let alone 4-6X as good? Don’t think so. Although, in fairness, it’s like that with most items.
I love my snap-on tools. I have spent a small fortune on them. My old friend has Craftsman tools. We have used his tools to fix many trucks, tractors, cars and a myriad of other stuff.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
This is likely the best review of the EP-5 out there. And it really addresses going head to head against a top tear optic. He tests the EP-5 alongside a $3500 Nightforce ATACR. And it shows exactly what I’ve been talking about. (He even says some the same things I’ve said!) Of course the Nightforce is better. But is it Five Times better than the Arken?? Nuh-uh!
The videos are long.(especially the 2nd one.) And it’s dumb he did part II on Rumble, but whatever. It’s worth a look to see how well the Arken does. I do especially like how he addressed fit & finish. On this point, I have a US Optics TS-20. It’s also a Chinese scope. The first thing I noticed was the fit & finish. The overall quality, feel & appearance is incredible on the latest optics being made in China. A big, big step above what’s been done to now. My Athlon & others I've handled was nice, sure. The Vortex I’ve used, same thing.. they are really nice. But nothing like my USO. It’s simply nicer. It’s as nice as any Schmidt & Bender, Nightforce or Zeiss I’ve handled. The Arken EP-5 is the same. I believe some of the the Riton line of optics also are.
Part I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_bc_FdJcwI
Part II: https://rumble.com/v2elivi-definitiv...rt-ii-con.html
I looked in to those, and watched a lot of videos on them. From all accounts, the EP5 seems to be the best scope out there for the money. The only problem I have with their entire lineup is the weight. Reminds me of my old Tasco Titan - built like a tank. Arkens are really heavy scopes compared to other, albeit more expensive offerings. In some applications weight is not an adverse factor, but for the new lightweight, low recoil hunting guns, it's a deal-breaker. That said, I may get one for my 6mm, which is close to 10# nekked. Right now it wears an older VX-III in 6-24, which I can plop on the much lighter Sako L461 222.
I watched his last video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzkUp1Je40&t=1s
He mentioned something that I think a lot of folks gloss over. Those 2k and up scopes for the military have to comply with standards that far exceed just tracking that chineseium scopes have to offer. I tried out the Arken SH4 on a 10/22 clone during a PRS match. The scope went down. It wouldn't return to zero, wouldn't dial up as I needed it to. I've replaced it with an IOR scope.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Not really. If you look at most top tier scopes, they are overwhelmingly on the heavy side. (Above 35oz) Only the Leupolds really are on the light side. Scopes like the Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 35.8oz., Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 @48.5oz, Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56 @39.1oz., Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25x56 @38oz, IOR Valdada Recon-Tac. 4-28x50 @39oz or the Tangent Theta 5-25x56 @40.5oz are all in & around the weight of the EP5 @38.8oz. The Leupold Mark5 5-25x56 by contrast, at a svelt 30oz! I have the US Optics TS-20 2.5-20x50 which is also a lightweight at only 29oz. Although it does have a 50mm objective which accounts for a couple ounces less anyway.
You could try the Arken EPL4 6-24x50 if you’re concerned with weight. It’s in the Bantamweight class @
only 25oz. Good price too! https://www.amazon.com/Arken-Optics-...dGY&th=1&psc=1
Rex Tibor actually put the Arken through probably more abuse than the military testing inflicts & it passed with flying colors. That sad, l are more Chinese scopes going to be defective? Of course. Doe anyone have any idea how of these are sold for every $2500, $3500, $4500 scope? Of course there is no question of which is better. My point is: are the top tier offerings even twice as good, let alone 4, 5 or even 6-Times the scope, as the price difference? I’m sure several had an Arken fail. (By the way, did you have it warranted & get a new one besides getting the IOR?) But it’s happening less frequently. Years ago when you compared a top tier scope to a Chinese scope, there was a clear & concise, very distinct difference in quality. It was quite easy to see where the extra money was going. The high end scopes were flat out way better! In appearance, build quality, and most importantly, glass clarity. But with several of the better Chinese scopes now, that is a thing of the past. Especially in glass clarity. The high end Chinese scopes have caught up in that department, by leaps & bounds! I honestly don’t see a difference looking through my TS-20 and a $4000 PMII. I don’t see what some people swear they see as better clarity. It’s just not there to me. If we have two scopes, & both are around 97% light transmission. Your eye isn’t picking up a couple tenths of a % difference, one way or the other! Build quality has also come a long way. Anyone who handles an EP5 & didn’t know what they were; if told it was a $2500 optic, the’s agree! Another problem along these lines is the top tier scopes prices have skyrocketed. Forget $2,000! That just barely buys a Cronus now…, but another $1000+ is needed to get several others. And it doesn’t even get you halfway to a Schmidt & Bender PMII, or a Tangent Theta! Just saying.
So for those who compete on a regular basis, I get it. If that’s your thing you need all the edge you can get. And for those who think they will be saving America, shooting on the streets, all while banging their rifles all over, dropping them off 8-story buildings & what not, and the scope MUST survive! OK.. kudos, and good luck with that. Unfortunately, neither of those arguments compels many of us. I drew a line in the sand quite some ago. I decided $1000 was the max I was willing to spend on a rifle scope. Period! Even that $1000 is quite a bit of money for me. I don’t compete, and I’m not going to war anytime soon, LOL! The scope I have looks & feels great. The glass is superb. And so far, this line has a really good track record. But if it fails, I’ll send it back to US Optics. That’s what lifetime warranties are for.
My brother has a Ts20X and a Foundation series USO. The FDN is absolutely a better scope in every way, better glass resolution, less CA, better turrets, zero stop. Is it 3 times the scope? Not sure, but i would surely pay twice as much for the large difference.
I ordered an EP5 on the big Cameraland NY anniversary sale for $397.xx, and i just got it. I will get it on a rifle ASAP, but likely after elk season.
Yeah that’s fine. I wouldn’t. Also, you wouldn’t just pay 2x the price anyway. The TS-20 is all ways available for at or under $1000. Got mine for $900 new. The FDN 17X is $2900 anywhere you look. Almost Three times the cost. You may very well be fine with that, but I’m not. I would also argue your points. The turrets on the TS-20 are much nicer, to me. Smaller, they sound much better & feel about the same. (I like audible and the FDN don’t make any noise. But they feel good.) However, they are GIANT! I also don’t see the clarity difference in the glass you do. Again… the human eye is unable to discern a mere 2 or 3 tenths of 1% better light transmission. But maybe you have super-duper eyes like all those other people online. But I don’t. And I don’t use zero-stops. I think they are a gimmick... a JOKE! And one last thing… the FDN scopes are about the FUGLIEST pieces of gear ever designed! They look like US Optics used a Retarded, Crack smoking artist to design them! Serious!
By the way, if you think the FDN line is so great, why didn’t you get one of those over the Arken? After all, all those those same criteria apply? Just curious.
I often shoot long range, and i have been stuck with being off 6 (one rev), 12 (2 rev) and 10 mils because i never returned the scope to zero when i was done shooting. I think of a zero stop as an essential.
Not every rifle needs to have a top of the line scope. i got the EP5 to go on my somewhat newly built 6mm ARC. I had put my Athlon Ares ETR on it, but since i really only intended it to be a 600-700 yard AR build (so far only taken to 500), i don't need that scope on that rifle.
I was pointing out two scopes from the same company, and there is a difference in quality. You do get what you pay for, and the more expensive of a scope, the less value you get for the money... i get that, but it does matter. You can pretend the difference isn't there, but it is. You can decide where your price point is not worth the difference in quality, and i do that every time i purchase a scope, but i don't pretend that there is no difference when i make the compromise. Every purchase is a compromise. My best scopes are all under $2k, i have drawn my line in the sand. I don't compete and know where my personal limit is, and that limit is less than my brother who does compete.
I suppose my point is that Arken, Athlon, Vortex are fad scopes. The internet hypes the hell out of these scopes, proclaims they're just as good as top tier quality scopes, and then I see new competitors in PRS with these scopes fail. These competitors have spent a lot of money just to shoot the local match.
Match fee: ~$100
Travel: $80
Ammo: $120
Forget the top competitors, why does nearly every shooter out there shoot with a 2k+ scope? Because we've seen these scopes fail, either on our rifles, or on a fellow competitor. We're not in a warzone, we're just in a competition. I wish someone had pointed out, that I would have been better suited just saving a few more months and buying an IOR/S&B,Nightforce/ZCO/Khales/TT than upgrading and being disappointed. Every cheap Chinese/Philippines/Japanese scopes, even the Razor Gen I has had to go back to factory to either be repaired or replaced. For $300 more I could have just bought the 6-24x56 tactical IOR over the Razor Gen I. There's simply no comparison between the two even though the scopes were priced to be equal. What's even worse...the top competitors often are sponsored by a scope brand. Barrel, action, stock/chassis, sure, but unless they're shooting a Vortex or Bushnell, the other scope manufacturers aren't sponsoring shooters.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Who in this thread proclaimed the Arken, Vortex, Athlon, etc., was better?? Because I’ve read every post & I certainly can’t find that posted anywhere. In fact, I never see that posted. To funny.
I have never so much as looked through an Arken, but decided to see what all the hubbub is about now that they've been around for a couple years so I ordered one yesterday - their new EP-8 LPVO. Been hee-hawing back and forth on which 1-8x LPVO to try out for my AR15's, but wanted to try to stay under $500 as if I like it I'll probably be ordering one or two more for two other AR's. Not super keen on the reticle, but liked that it was 34mm main tube and had low profile capped turrets rather than big bulky exposed ones as I just plan to zero it and leave it alone. I would have preferred a SFP reticle over FFP to make it more visible at lower magnifications, but beggars can't be choosers.
Downside is they're back-ordered with an estimated ETA of about 6 weeks so if I'm lucky I'll have it in my hands by Thanksgiving.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Well said.
If you have no use for good glass you certainly don't have use for great glass. With that said I have no use for crappy glass or mechanisms....ever.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Well, the EP-8 I ordered showed up Monday and I've already put in a return authorization request for a return/refund. Not sure what's SOP for their optics, but the one I received wasn't sealed up at all in it's box - no round stickers holding the upper and lower halves of the box together, and no plastic shrink wrapping to remove. Opened the box and no plastic sleeve over the scope itself and no desiccant packet was present which raised even more suspicion. No owners manual, warranty card, etc. present in the box either, and the packaging for the included battery had already been opened up and someone just put the battery back into the torn open package. This was all on top of the scope and mount being shipped in an oversized box with no packaging material to take up all the extra space so I'm sure it took a beating at the hands of USPS.
Packaging aside, the main reason I'm returning it is because the reticle is all but useless IMO. At 1x the whole reticle is soo small that it just looks like a speck of dust on the lens when looking through the scope. It's not much better at 8x as it's still extremely small, and while you can at least see the precision aiming dot inside the horseshoe at this magnification the horseshoe is so bold and overbearing that your eye naturally focuses on it rather than the dot. I also found that if I moved my head even the tiniest bit out of perfect alignment the scope would wash out or I'd two slightly staggered reticles. Could just be my eyes as at nearly 50 years they aren't what they used to be, but I don't have this issue with any of the other 17 scopes I currently own.
Unfortunately the reticle issue is one that is proving to be quite common with FFP scopes utilizing a higher power zoom lens (6x, 8x, 10x). To me, it just seems these manufacturers are often taking an existing reticle design from another model they have - usually something with a 3x or 4x zoom lens, and then throwing it into these new high zoom models without giving two thoughts about the scale of the reticle and how that much larger magnification range will affect that reticles usefulness over that range. I've seen it from most every brand of scope that has come out with a high zoom lens line with FFP reticles.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Sad story. Hope they make it right.
Since I shoot at the bench I prefer SFP just to make sure the reticle cross stays small at high magnification. The hash marks mean little to me shooting at known distances.
i sent a sh4 back as it had rings marks from someone else that returned it. Got my $$$ back.
EP5 is or seems to me to be the very best deal out there with the discount now--For a serious step up look at the Tract Toric top of the line--the glass is just amazing--I mean if you use one I bet you buy one.
The EP5 is a decent low end scope. I just put one on my new LH CZ 457 Varmint 22lr for some local stock class precision 22 matches. I always laugh when the internet and youtube guy's brag that a $500 scope compares to scopes that cost 3x-6x as much. They don't, they compare to scopes in the same price range and that's it.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks