Max OAL for. 223 , 60gr Vmax in Savage 12?

[WeeHooker]

So I have a new to me Savage 12 BVSS with 1:0 twist barrel. Initial testing shows that it shoots my Varget handloads with 68 HPBT Hornadys into nickle sized groups at 100 yds. ( Those are loaded to 2.250" OAL). That's good enough for me.
Somewhere long the line I picked up a few hundred Hornady 60 gr Vmax bullets that I think might also shoot well in this . The issue is that when I try to load these to the same 2.250" , the load not only gets heavily compressed but it seems that they seat with the ogive below the case lip. Seems best I can seem to comfortably get with these bullets is an OAL of 2.280" or so with this poly tipped bullet. ( I do not ahve a tool to measure tot he ogive.)
My BVSS uses a sing shot sled so I'm not concerned about meeting mag length. I've also checked the depth to the rifling via the Loktite bullet trick and I'm seeing 2.300" OAL to the rifling. I'm thinking I'd be OK at 2.280 but am admittedly in unknown territory.

Given I've never loaded long for a single shot rifle before, I'm wondering if anyone else is loading .223 into the 2.270 -2.300" range in their savage.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

[CFJunkie]

The seating depth for any particular bullet is very dependent upon the bullet shape.

Older bullet designs often have a Tangent shape for the tip and the newer designs have Secant shapes which are more pointed. The more pointed the tip, the more of the bullet tip can be seated into the barrel past the lands before the ogive touches the lands.
That would mean the OAL could be longer.
Measurements, like the one you made are pressing the bullet ogive into the lands and the measurement from cartridge base to tip (OAL) is what you are measuring after you take it out.
Cartridge base to ogive measurements are made using the tools that you referenced but don't have., but the OAL measurement is the same regardless.

By the way, I measure every group I shoot and take very detailed notes. I have records for multiple rifles in different calibers and just passed the 56,000 reloading mark.
i find that changing the seating depth (OAL) for any particular bullet is not as much of a factor for accuracy as you might think.
Finding the bullet weight and bullet shape your particular rifle likes is much more of a factor.
Also, some barrels also seem to have preferences for powders and temperature if you are shooting a temperature sensitive powder.

I have a model 12 .223 with a 26-inch barrel - probably the same barrel length as your BVSS.
My Savage has 4,000 rounds down the barrel so there is some throat erosion in the chamber (probably on the order of 0.040 or more.)
That requires me to seat the bullets out further to get the same jump as I had when the chamber was new.
I regularly load 77 grain SMK bullets out as far as 2.370.
I have loaded the Hornady Match 68 grain #2278 bullets out at 2.298.
The Hornady 73 and 75 grain ELD-Ms are very new designs and very pointy shapes. They may be able to load out 0.200 longer than the old designs.

The 60 grain V-Max is a lighter bullet that the 68 Hornady so the bullet length base to tip should be shorter. The bullet body touching the neck will determe how much you can seat it out before the neck tension starts to become too light to maintain consistency.
Don't be afraid to seat it out, but be aware that shorter, lighter bullets can actually be out of the neck before the ogive touch the lands. I have had that happen with 52. 53 and 55 grain bullets in just about all of my .223 chambers.

That said, the Hornady Match 68 gr bullet is an old design and shot groups in the 0.650 range in my rifle, compared to Sierra 69 gr SMKs that average 0.283 for 143 5-round groups.
If you want some cheap bullets that shoot pretty well, the RMR 69 grain bullets (that they claim to be SMK clones) averaged 0.305 for 23 groups and cost about 1/3 as much as the SMKs.

[charlie b]

^^this is good stuff.

My Axis liked the 77 and 69gn SMK's set to 2.280" at near max loads of Varget, not quite compressed loads but close. They were approx .020" from the lands,

I also loaded some 75gn Hornady ELD bullets out to 2.44"!! Too long for mag but they were just touching the lands IIRC. They also shot very well. If I had not been using the mag I would have shot more of them. The Axis was a 1:9 twist.

So, yes, beyond 2.3"oal can be done depending on the bullet.

[Dave Hoback]

I agree with what CFJunkie stated… all good points. Interesting, I was loading only 60gr Vmax. HEAVY loads for a time and even sent a Pmag full of these loads with my brother in law to Afghanistan. (When he was a Marine, like 13 years ago or more) I can only hope at least one of my reloads sent a Haji Terrorist to his 73 Virgins or whatever. Anyway… I loaded all mine to 2.250” with no heavy compression. That was BLC2 powder (my favorite for 223). What powder are you using?

The 68gr HPBT pills are absolutely longer than the 60gr Vmax.

[WeeHooker]

Thanks Gents! Helpful to know I'm not way out of line.
FWIW, I'm loading Varget and H4895 and trying to develop a ladder. The Varget particularly goes to a compressed load when I'm near the 25.1 gr sweet spot with the H68gr HPBT .
My research shows that more than a few folks like 26.4gr of Varget under the 60gr vmax but that's near a full case that I can see. I'm going to try a few starting in the 25 gr range and seated to 2.290 and work up.

[Whynot]

Are you sure that you have 60 grain vmax bullets? You can go below the 2.250 (that hornady uses for the OAL of that bullet) without putting the bullet below the top of the case neck. Not that it is a issue because you are wanting to get the bullet out further..... but if you can't get it below 2.800 then either you have a different bullet or are measuring wrong (not talking at all about case capacity or compressing loads.... simply the OAL of the bullet).

The ogive measuring tools do help.... but they are not always a once and done thing. They measure a specific diameter on a bullet- that may or may not correlate with your barrel. If you switch to a different bullet and load to the exact same ogive measurement as the previous bullet- you can still have differences in jump because that may not be the exact same place as it hits on your barrel - and the different shapes of bullets mean that the correct ogive may be closer or further away from the lands.

[charlie b]

Yep. I always just use a bullet and case to measure where the lands touch. Strip the bolt (no ejector, no extractor, no firing pin). Lightly size the neck, seat the bullet out as long as you can. Then chamber it. That will push the bullet into the case. You have to use a rod to push the bullet and case back out (gently). Then you know the exact measurement. I also like to color the bullet with a sharpie. Then I know where the lands touch the bullet as well.