Reply With Quoteup to you how fussy you want to be. weigh a few and see how much of a spread you have. You could sort them by .02 and see how many piles you have. Cull the extremums until you have a usable quantity.
Does anyone weigh their brass? And if so, how much of a difference in weight do you look for?
Is 1 grain close enough?
up to you how fussy you want to be. weigh a few and see how much of a spread you have. You could sort them by .02 and see how many piles you have. Cull the extremums until you have a usable quantity.
.223 Rem AI, .22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI .243 Win AI, .6mm Rem AI, .257 Rob AI, .25-06 AI, 6.5x300wsm .30-06 AI, .270 STW, 7mm STW, 28 nosler, .416 Taylor
I do not. I don’t pretend it would make any accuracy difference for myself. I think many, many people kid themselves with their shooting ability. Honestly.. any forum you go to online it seems, every other person seems to have a factor, bone stock rifle that shoots 1/4” MOA, LOL!
Tried weighing cases decades ago and it didn't make a lot of difference with my scores. This Savage Stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor won't shoot 1/4 moa with me at the wheel, but it does darn good for only having a trigger change. Whatta Hobby!
Semper Fi
Sgt USMC 66-72
I sort everything I take to a match and that includes primers. It's the anal side of physics.
I shoot Norma brass and my 284-ELF has 5 piles, 1/2 grain apart. I got 3 extreme outliers.
2 full grains heavier. I cut two apart to check to see if web thickness was the culprit. it was
not. There can be an argument about only water/alcohol sorting is the best way to check
capacity, but the flaw in that method is all cases don't spring back the same. and would be
closer if the full case was annealed, and of course we don't do that.....Note, i only weight
sort after all prep work is done. And on another note....It's also part of the mental game.
And one more note.....Deburring and chamfering the necks ?? You would be surprised how
weight you can alter. Some cases stretch more then others....Did I mention "mental game"
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Fuj, are you saying you are mental? LOL But, yeah, that is a big part when you go down the precision rabbit hole.
Caveat: I am the weak link. I can only shoot to 1/2MOA on a regular basis. Sometimes the stars align and I can get lower, but, not often. And I do not compete.
I do weight sort, but, only to 1gn. My brass is all Lapua or Peterson so most are good. I have also considered the best way to determine case consistency. Volume measurement by filling the case with water or some other consistent medium is considered the 'best' but I do not take the extra time.
My alternative method is to track muzzle velocities. If I get some outliers I will mark the head of the case with a sharpie. Then if it is still 'off' for the next session then I will remove that case from my box. FWIW, I've only had to do that a few times out of a hundred cases. Yes there is a chance I am tossing a good case, but, when all the rest are shooting +/-10fps and one is 30fps out twice in a row, then something is probably wrong with the case.
I did have a batch of Hornady match cases a while ago (.308Win) and they were sorted into three batches of 1gn. I think (mental) it made a difference in group sizes, but, I can't prove it.
The only way to prove something like this works is a blind test, which is kinda time consuming.
If the brass isn't all same manufacturer, same lot number, no, otherwise, yes, only to find if any are significantly outside the mean.
Forgot, the mental side. I will frequently mark on my sheet if I 'feel' wrong when the gun goes off. Not a trigger pull or jerk or lifting my head (I note those too), just an off feeling. Sometimes the bullet still goes in the group, but, other times it is the one that 'stretches' the group. I'll also note if I don't feel 'right' that day. Sometimes the 'shooting therapy' makes it go away, sometimes it means I shoot lousy that day.
Honestly, I believe it’s akin to other things we do. The way I like using Titanium parts. Or that I prefer super high-quality 7075 rings opposed to 6061 rings. The crazy amount of extra strength isn’t needed.. I know that. But it gives me piece of mind. Could also liken it to barrel break in. Again, not something I worry about beyond me just shooting & cleaning, but many shooters have their own very lavish recipe for break in. It brings them solace. A placebo, so to speak. And I am 100% OK with that. Studies have shown the Placebo Effect can in fact, make a difference.
At our ages. it's always mental.....LOLOriginally Posted by charlie b
I do about the same as you regarding a weird velocity. I inside neck lube and wonder
if I missed a case or two. I'll mark them as foulers but recheck the speeds.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
LOL, yep, and sometimes a lot of that mental has left the building :)
Yes I sort by weight, but I mainly sort by velocity.
I'm in the camp of, if you have never trimmed, turned, uniformed etc.... and your brass is not all the same batch from Lapua or other quality brand, by all means sort by weight. Once you remove brass it is mute.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I track muzzle volocity as well, marking my cases high med and low ie blue green and red, followed by weighing those just for drill and sure enough the higher speed cases weigh just a bit more.
if I see that difference on paper and the chrono I’ll sit that case aside.
I've simply sorted brass for my hunting rifles by those that go in the bullseye at the range and those that dont and those that go high and those that go low.
Never read about anyone else sorting brass like this but the ones that always seem to go into the bullseye seem to have a propensity to do it again and again.
Maybe I'm just crazy and its all mental. May be some science I dont understand in it somewhere. Heck might be luck or even magic. Whatever it is seems to work for me.
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
I agree with Your method Jeep. I would call it “Sorting by Point of Impact”. Precision reloads need to be Fire Formed anyway, so why not sort according to the results after that process.
Weighing brass has been one of the longest running discussions ever :)
Excuses and interweb data can be used for or against weighing.
Some suggest uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes, trimming and chamfering impact weight.
How much? Weight a case, an example is a 6.5X55 mil case.
The as fired case with a length of 2.160" weighs 181.935 grains.
Trimming 0.005" and chamfering, 2.155" weighs 181.755 grains (a loss of 0.145 grains),
Trimming 0.010" and it weighs 181.640 grains (0.295 grains),
To lose one whole grain from this case would require a trim of about 0.034".
Some areas of the case WILL affect weight but NOT volume.
Neck thickness in the bullet seating area.
Groove and rim.
Flash hole.
Pocket depth.
By how much?
Web thickness, wall thickness will effect both weight and volume remembering that brass weighs about 8 times water/powder.
Don't be afraid to waste time finding the OUTLIERS in weight and cull them from competition use. It's usually one-and done.
If you can't find any outliers, good.
Now primers.
Does a light or heavy outlier make any difference?
I don't know but I don't like outliers in any component.
Granted only a few, but a range of 0.165 grains seems like a lot. Average weight seems to be about 3.66grains for the CCI450.
Now that is something I had never thought to do. Have you ever tracked vel or groups based on primer weight? I know I usually get better groups from match primers (CCI BR-2, Fed Gold Medal, Rem BR). CCI sm rifle magnum primers are very close to match performance in my shooting as well.
Not yet. Just haven't had the time. I've segregated them for future tests.
Ran some Ginex across the scale and though wow, that's terrible.
Then got a wild hair and sorted a 1000 CCI450.
Just a FEW outliers.
Wife keeps throwing fliers and to keep the peace I need to verify it ain't my reloading.
Not yet. Just haven't had the time. I've segregated them for future tests.
Ran some Ginex across the scale and though wow, that's terrible.
Then got a wild hair and sorted a 1000 CCI450.
Just a FEW outliers.
Wife keeps throwing fliers and to keep the peace I need to verify it ain't my reloading.
Interesting data.
I am just glad I don't have to reload for someone else. I can only blame myself for fliers :)
And we all know that keeping the wife happy is a necessary endeavor.
I like it.
Thing about fliers and primers, is all about added charge weight. If you have a primer
over one tenth of a grain more, That one tenth has more energy then one tenth of a
grain of powder.....I sort and shoot CCI BR2's and will find more outliers then I like.
I use the cheapest primers I can find for fire forming. I located a brick of Federal
Champions, and sorted the first 100 just to see.....The whole brick was outliers....LOL
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
At least I now have a few months supply of sorted primers.
Bought the big ol' box of Ginex due to shortages just to be on the safe side.
Sorted them, then sorted the CCI450's, and some 41's.
Maybe I'll take some of the outliers and shoot them blind with some from the mean weight.
(have my reloading helper ID the cases)
The wife and I have been playing with F-Open Midrange for a couple years.
Loading trigger time rounds and a monthly match is usually over 200 rounds each month.
With all the bad press about the 22N I run an AR without a gas port using 22N/Dogtown brass sorted to the nearest grain.
My thought is as long as all are the same for a match, like 108gr, 109gr, 110gr I can adjust with the sighters.
The wife is running a gasser, with the gas cut back to dribble using 22 Nosgar, again sorted to the nearest grain.
The 6mm Hagar case, necked and trimmed is HEAVY. 125gr, 126gr. An earlier batch in the 50 case bags was closer to 130gr.
As long as I don't mix them I think she will be OK.
It does require different load development for each of us partly due to the brass volume and partly due to round count differences in the two barrels. Mine being pretty much shot out @ 3300 rounds. Her load is currently about 1 to 1.2 grains less with the heavier case. Volume difference in pic;
She has about 700 rounds on hers and doing pretty good (less fliers) shooting the Berger 85.5 @ about 2980fps muzzle, 2500 @ 300, and a little over 2000 @ 600.
Always a flier, and it's not my fault :)
100yds
300yds
600
I'm putting together (in the early stages now) a Savage SA, Shilen 28", and a pretty laminated stock, again in 22 Nosgar as a Christmas present (maybe Valentines) , and reward for an anticipated Master in Midrange (she's getting closer).
Maybe when my new barrel gets here I can catch up :)
But for now it sort, sort, sort :)
Fuji,
I’ve had pretty good luck sorting CCI srp primers using the gram mode vs grain mode as for example a mid 450 weight is listed at .239 and confirmed’ I’ll sort .238-.240 as mid with .235-.237 low and finally .241-.244 as high leaving out the few odd balls. Same technic with BR-4’s and when I test primers to determine which one the ignition prefers I’ll run a charge ladder of each 450 and br-4 side by side at distance and one will prevail with a much smaller and less erratic overall ladder on paper.
Jim
So Fuj, would You SKIP A MATCH if You didn’t have time to do all the OCD stuff we normally do
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