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Thread: 55 grain bullet out of a 1:7 Twist Barrel ?

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    55 grain bullet out of a 1:7 Twist Barrel ?


    Gentlemen, fully aware that barrels are individuals when it comes to their preferred loads, but in general, should I expect a 26" heavy barrel with 1:7 to be able to shoot a 55 grain match bullet to, say, 300 yards ( wind aside for discussion ) with medium size steel plate accuracy? And yes, I do plan to shoot heavier bullets, just that I`ve got quite a few 55`s on the shelf! Thanks.

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    Yes.

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    As Dave said , Yes , and , I'll add I wouldn't "fire ball" your loads

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    Thanks Dave. I`m going to try and zero 55 and 68 grain rounds to get started at 200 and 300 yard targets. Probably go up to 75 + for 400 + .

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    FWIW, the 55gn will easily go to 300yd. Some are better than others. 69gn to 600yd although I liked 77gn better. The 77SMK's were my favorite but the Nosler 77gn BTHP match bullets were a close second. I also liked the 75gn Hornady ELD, but, when seated out for best accuracy they would not fit in the magazine. If you want to spend the extra money the Sierra Tipped Match Kings were even better by a bit. When discussing each of these match bullets keep in mind the differences in precision is a 0.1 or 0.2 MOA.

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    Turkeytider,
    The only 55 grain bullets that I have found shoot accurately are the Berger Flat Base #22410s.
    IMO, if you are focusing on accuracy it isn't worth loading all the other 55 gr bullets I have tried (mostly old designs meant for hunting or FMJs that are for what I consider rapid fire AR ammo).
    The lighter match bullets - 52 SMKs #1410 (0.343), 52 ELD-Ms #22491 (0.333), the 53 grain SMK #1400 (0.376) and 53 gr V-Maxes 22265 (0.363) shoot much better than all of the other 55 gr bullets, with the exception of the Berger Flat Base #22410s (0.343).
    For long range shooting, I think you will find that the heavier bullets (69 grains and heavier - up to 80 grains with your 1:7 twist) will let you reach out further while maintaining accuracy.

    charlie b, the 73 gr ELD-Ms seem to shoot more accurately in my 26-in barrel at 100 yards shooting 5-round groups - 0.268 for the 73 ELD-Ms versus 0.375 for the 75 gr ELD-Ms.
    Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to a range longer than 100 yards.
    But the difference between the 73 and 75 ELD-Ms is large enough to presume that the accuracy of the 73s will hold on out to at least 300 yards.

    For comparison, for the heavier bullets that I have shot the most groups with (so the group averages should be good indicators, statistically speaking:
    77 SMKs average 0.291 for 266 groups with the best powder averaging 0.235 (N540).
    77 TMKs average 0.279 for 141 groups with the best powder averaging 0.279. (IMR4166)
    69 SMKs average 0.291 for 125 groups with the best powder averaging 0.235. (N540)
    69 TMKs average 0.288 for 141 groups with the best powder averaging 0.286. (IMR4166)
    (IMR 4166 is no longer available so the N540 powder was a recent acquisition, so the number of groups are small by comparison, but the results are worth exploring in the long run.)

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    I guess I could have been more clear, I`ll be shooting factory loads.

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    I have never found 55-grain factory ammo that would shoot accurately enough to shoot at 300 yards.
    I'm not sure anyone makes factory loads with Berger 55 gr match bullets, so I guess my recommendation is moot.

    If it were me, I would try the Federal Gold Medal Match or Nosler CC 69 and 77 gr factory loads if you want to shoot longer distances, even out to 600 yards.

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    I think the comment "medium steel plate accuracy" needs to be kept in mind. Even the cheap 55gn stuff I found would shoot to less than 6" at 300yd. If you want to impress people then what CFJ offered is the way to go with match grade ammo. It just costs a bit more (quite a bit).

    Some of us get wrapped around the axle with better accuracy. Sorry to muddy the water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFJunkie View Post
    I have never found 55-grain factory ammo that would shoot accurately enough to shoot at 300 yards.
    I'm not sure anyone makes factory loads with Berger 55 gr match bullets, so I guess my recommendation is moot.

    If it were me, I would try the Federal Gold Medal Match or Nosler CC 69 and 77 gr factory loads if you want to shoot longer distances, even out to 600 yards.
    Hornady`s Frontier line has a 68 grain OTM that I may try. Little less expensive. My 110 in .223 ( 1:9 ) REALLY likes their 55 grain OTMs.

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    I'll have to try some of those 55 OTMs.
    They weren't produced when I did most of my light bullet experimentation.
    When I found that my 1:9s shot much more accurately with 69 through 77 gr bullets, I abandoned using the lighter bullets.

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    https://palmettostatearmory.com/aac-...mmunition.html


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    Hornady`s Frontier line has a 68 grain OTM that I may try. Little less expensive. My 110 in .223 ( 1:9 ) REALLY likes their 55 grain OTMs.
    Same here. Started with the 55gr and they shot good....the 68gr....not so much. Unless Hornady changed in the past year, Lake City makes their Frontier line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamiltonkiler View Post
    Thank you sir. Prefer to shoot .223 only out of my guns. Would love to try those if they were in .223.

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    55 grain bullet out of a 1:7 Twist Barrel ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turkeytider View Post
    Thank you sir. Prefer to shoot .223 only out of my guns. Would love to try those if they were in .223.
    Mmm.. what’s the difference again in .556 and .223?

    Your fine in a bolt gun.
    I promise

    There is plenty throat length and enough chamber metal/meat nothing is going to go wrong.
    Cheers

    I have shot piles of nato 77gn otm ammo through my 10 .223 action


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    For factory loads the Fiocchi 50g Vmax shoots really well for me in several rifles
    But to your question i have two pals one with 7 and one with 8 twist with long freebore for the heavy stuff and both barrels shoot 53 Vmax lights out--they say the longer throats help with pressures when going hot as a bonus

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    PSA's AAC ammo may be a little hot for a bolt gun. It is on the edge in a AR15 with popped primers being reported a lot. This is with their own manufactured 77gr bullet. They also offer the Sierra but I have not seen much reports about that. People may be getting one or the other and not knowing which they actually buy as a 77gr bullet everyone assumes it to be a Sierra bullet.

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    For factory loads the Fiocchi 50g Vmax shoots really well for me in several rifles
    They do. Picked up a box of 50 last winter just to see...they shot really well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    PSA's AAC ammo may be a little hot for a bolt gun. It is on the edge in a AR15 with popped primers being reported a lot. This is with their own manufactured 77gr bullet. They also offer the Sierra but I have not seen much reports about that. People may be getting one or the other and not knowing which they actually buy as a 77gr bullet everyone assumes it to be a Sierra bullet.
    Hot for a bolt gun? Those bolt guns are made for much higher pressure and larger diameter cartridges (even less steel in the barrel to contain the pressure). The small .223 case the limit is the brass case, not the chamber strength. Savage (and most other mfgs) have been putting long throats on their .223's for a long time now, just to prevent any problems with surplus ammo.

    I'd be more concerned shooting 'hot' loads in an AR.

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    if primers are blanking and popping in a AR then they sure will in a loose savage bolt head. Until savage stops sending out bolt heads that are dished and have oversized pin holes it can and will continue to happen. I had to send my 223 back 2x to get them to put a good bolt head on it. My fix till it was actually fixed was to run 41 primers. Anything else would blank the primer. And these were well below a max charge in the books.

    And to the OP, sometimes a rough(savage barrel) with a tight twist can and will rip apart a thin skinned match or varmint bullet. I had a 3 groove Lija in 243w with a 1-8 twist that would blow up AMAX bullets. Everything else was fine. But the AMAX was too thin to handle a 3 grove barrel. I went with a 3 groove to test to see if it would last longer than a conventional 5-6 groove barrel and it did.

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    Well, first range trip with my new Model 12 LRPV in .223. Tried zeroing a Frontier ( Hornady ) 55 grain OTM. Gun threw them all over the lot! Nowhere close to any kind of group from which to adjust. Figured that either the barrel ( 1:7 ) won`t stabilize them or the bore sighting was not correct somehow. Had a few 68 grain OTM Frontier loads so gave them a try. Dialed back to the bore sight settings and started over. Two three round groups later the load was zeroed. Shot two more sub-MOA groups right at or very close to POA. VERY satisfied. Think that this is going to be a fun gun to shoot!
    Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16X 44 scope.

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    Congratulations!

    If anything, the 1-7 twist over stabilizes the shorter 55gn bullets. It is enough to stabilize 80gn and maybe 90gn .22cal bullets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Congratulations!

    If anything, the 1-7 twist over stabilizes the shorter 55gn bullets. It is enough to stabilize 80gn and maybe 90gn .22cal bullets.
    Well Charlie, whatever it was doing, it was putting bullets all over the place. I could barely keep them on the target sheet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Congratulations!

    If anything, the 1-7 twist over stabilizes the shorter 55gn bullets. It is enough to stabilize 80gn and maybe 90gn .22cal bullets.
    To be honest, never heard of " over stabilization " of a bullet. What does that do, if anything, to impact performance?

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    Pardon me in advanced for this long post, but I believe that the data will let you see that there is no easy answer for which bullet will perform best in your new barrel.

    I believe that your rifle is telling you that it might shoot bullets in the 69 and maybe up to the 77-grain range better than the lighter bullets.
    You might also try the Hornady 73 gr ELD-Ms or the 75 gr ELD-Ms. They aren't as expensive as the Berger, Nosler or Sierra heavy bullets.

    Here is some data that might let you see how one particular rifle barrel performs with different powders and bullets, no matter how confusing and illogical it might seem.

    The 73 gr ELD-Ms shoot more accurately in my Savage 12 FV rifle with a 26-in 1:9 twist barrel than the 75 ELD-Ms.
    But my 1:9 twist consistently shoots 77 gr bullets accurately so the 75 gr bullet weight shouldn't have caused the difference.
    The same 1:9 twist rifle shot 77 SMKs to a 0.235-in average for 10 5-round groups at 100 yards using N540 powder during my last session. (We'll see if N540 accuracy holds up for a larger sample.)
    77 SMKs averaged 0.292-in average for 90 groups with IMR4166 powder, and 0.289-in average for 83 groups with N140 powder.
    77 TMKs averaged 0.279-in average for 205 groups with IMR4166 powder, and 0.282-in average for 61 groups N140 powder.
    77 Nosler CCs averaged 0.280-in groups for 12 groups with H4895 powder, and 0.227-in average for 9 groups with IMR4166 powder.
    77 Berger OTMs averaged 0.282-in average for 17 groups with N140 powder.
    73 ELD-Ms shot a 0.264-in average for 8 groups with H4895 powder and 0.273 for 7 groups with N140 powder a few months ago. (I need to find more of these.)
    75 ELD-Ms shot 0.375-in average for 4 groups with N140 powder at about the same time. (I was surprised that the 75 ELD-Ms did so poorly.)
    69 SMKs shot a 0.235-in average for 21 groups with N540 powder.
    69 SMKs shot a 0.289-in average for 32 groups with N140 powder and a 0.292-in average for 93 groups with IMR4166 powder.
    69 Nosler CCs shot a 0.310 average for 13 groups with IMR4166 powder.
    69 RMR shot .0296-in average for 11 groups with N140 powder.
    (2000 69 RMR bullets cost about the same as 500 SMKs so if you want a bargain heavy bullet that shoots pretty well, this might be your best bet.)

    In comparison, lighter bullets didn't shoot as well in my Savage 12 FV.
    50 gr Berger Varmint FBs averaged 0.390 with N133 powder.
    52 gr Hornady ELD-Ms averaged 0.333 with N133 powder.
    52 Berger FBs averaged 0.466 with N133 powder. (Can't explain why the Berger 52s did so poorly in this barrel. My CZ527 24-in barrel loved them.)
    52 Nosler CCs averaged 0.367 with N133 powder.
    52 SMKs averaged 0.343 with N133 powder.
    52 Hornady V-Max averaged 0.363 with N133 powder.
    53 SMKs averaged 0.376 with N133 powder.
    55 Berger FBs averaged 0.343 with N133 powder.

    My data shown above tells me that bullet weight, shape and length will determine what bullets your rifle will shoot best.
    Bullet weight and powder combinations do seem to matter, however illogical that might seem.
    Individual barrels are particular, and preferences will differ, even for equivalent barrel lengths - I have identical rifles with different preferences.
    I have found that some powders just shoot better with particular bullets than others in particular barrels, and the same powder will perform better with a particular bullet weight compared to another bullet weight. regardless of the powder's burn rate.

    The only way you will be able to determine what works for your barrel is to try different combinations of bullets and powders.
    When you find several combinations that your rifle likes, shoot them most of the time.
    I just was able to purchase some N540 and, to my surprise, it is getting better results than N140 and several other powders, using the same bullets that I have data for.
    As a result, I will be experimenting more with N540, hoping that its performance will continue to shine.

    Caution, my results might not transfer to your particular rifle - ever barrel is different.

    Consider this - in a large rifle maker, a run of barrels on a particular day is made one after another.
    (For a specialized barrel maker, a single barrel might be cut for each set up, but the reamer is reused until it is too worn to be reused, so the example below still holds.)
    The barrel blank is of a particular lot of steel so the steel mix is the same, but the next lot will be very slightly different.
    The barrel bore is cut using a reamer.
    The reamer for the first barrel in the run is new and exactly the bore diameter.
    By the time the last barrel bore in the run is cut, the reamer is slightly worn and the bore dimension is slightly smaller.
    The same holds true for the reamer used to cut the chamber.
    Now you see why no two barrels can be identical.

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