Reply With QuoteYhat's awesome news Mike! I hope you enjoy it.Originally Posted by Magnum Mike
I have to say that any negative commentary was earned and not frivolously handed out.
My only dealing with SSK showed me that the communication saavy and customer relations skills are somewhat lacking to say the least. I was very happy to get on the waiting list and if I'd caught the wave early enough, I'd probably have plunked down my money up front. But...when you tease a product for years and say "almost there" enough times without producing results and don't think enough of your customers to offer any real assessment or explanation, you don't deserve a lot of respect or consideration or patience, IMO.
That being said, I'll be thrilled when my name comes up and I can buy a couple of frames. I expect that they'll be good quality but I won't expect a high level of service from SSK if there's any sort of problem. :)
Yhat's awesome news Mike! I hope you enjoy it.
It's better to shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost than to shoot for the fencepost and hit the ground!
I'm curious...does anyone have an idea of how many they're shipping per week or per month?
The wait list is something like 1600 names. Even if they're shipping 30 a week (which would be a lot, I imagine), it'll be at least a year before they're at the end of it.
It'd be cool if Marty posted the list somewhere and gave some indication as to the pace of order fulfillment. It would probably make his life easier, too. I'm sure his phone has been blowing up with questions and inquiries. :)
Did you guys ever stop to think that just maybe "Marty" may be trying to run a company? I'm quite sure SSK does not have some giant public relations department with nothing better to do than to keep up with every single website, email and social media outlet. I'm sure some of this was kept under wraps due to necessity (think S&W trying as hard as they could to derail it unless given large bags of cash, or 3rd party vendors not being able to follow through with supplying viable product, etc). Your $300 bought you occasional updates, and SSK DID offer anyone still upset the opportunity to get refunds.
Bringing a new product to market is time consuming, and EXPENSIVE. Especially when a big portion of that manufacturing must be done out of house (3rd party vendors). I'm still chuckling at the idea of folks who fronted SSK, what? $300? Each? Consider themselves some kind of capital investment tycoon, and they now "own" a piece of the company's endeavor.
$300 "buy in" x 400 lucky contributors = $120K
I'm *QUITE* sure this product development (and now release) has cost SSK many times more cash than that (you need to think in the 10-20x or more range).
Your $300 does not and did not give you a stakeholder position in the company. The company offered refunds. Now they offer product. That's what your $300 investment brought you.
Even with the announcement of PRODUCTION copies being shipped (like they were supposed to all along), some folks are STILL flogging this dead horse. Now it's renewed demands to know "wait times", etc. I got news for you, they don't have anyone sitting around with nothing better to do than constantly flipping back and forth through "lists" to let each and every one of you know where you are, or how long this will take. Did some of you not ask for refunds JUST so you could continue to complain even after copies are shipping?
Heysooose-Mary-and-Joseph on tricycles!
Not one apology to Marty, or SSK for some of the outlandish and sometimes down right insulting accusations (like "inferring" that the product will never be made, and SSK has made off with the money, etc?).
12F, McGowen 6.5x284 1-8" twist, Nightforce 12-42x BR<br />BVSS, McGowen barrel, 22-250 1-9" twist, Nikon 6-18x<br />16 FHLSS Weather Warrior, Sinarms 257 Roberts, Pentax 3-9<br />Stevens 200, 223 bone-factory-stock, Nikon 3-9x<br />Scratch-built BVSS, LW 243 1-8" twist, Viper 6.5-20x50 mil-dot
WELL SAID SLIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For some $300 is still a goodly sum and expect to be treated fairly and not keep out on a limb by them saying coming soon. It would only take a few minutes for them to keep those that put down $300 to keep them informed. It's not like they have to print off several hundred letters and then mail. Let's face it with today's modern technology all one had to do is write one email and then bring up their mailing list add the proper names and hit send, it doesn't take much time at all. In my personal opinion they should have been up front on what was happening. The statement that was made (Not one apology to Marty, or SSK for some of the outlandish and sometimes downright insulting accusations (like "inferring" that the product will never be made, and SSK has made off with the money, etc?). Is protected 1st amendment rights, remember we are pushing our second amendment rights. After 3 years people are going to start to wonder, and they have the right to think the way they do. I haven't seen where SSK or Marty has made an apology to those that put down their money and taking 3 years to get the product out the door either. My feelings are they should have keep everyone updated and told them what the real reason was for the long delay.
This is my personal feelings and has no bearing on Savage Shooters Forum which is a great forum for us to discuss these issues.
I have to say that this one of the least constructive or consequential "debates" I've seen on a forum.
I guess maybe it's somehow important and necessary to defend SSK against all that terrible negativity but I don't think they really care one way or another. Since they don't have a "public relations department with nothing better to do than to keep up with every single website, email and social media outlet", they've never even been aware of all those awful things that so many people seem to be saying.I've personally had pretty crappy dealings with them over other matters so I don't feel as if I owe them any reverence or devotion.
I was happy to get on the waiting list and I'll be quite happy when my number comes up and I can get a couple of frames. I was completely perplexed every time there was another big "coming soon" announcement followed by many more months of nothing but it really didn't make any difference either way. They'd either eventually show up or not. If I had skin in the game, I might have been a little less laid back about it. :)
Now that there seems to be some actual movement toward order fulfillment, I think Contender fans finally have something to be excited about. Going back and forth about who should or shouldn't have expressed their opinion or vented their exasperation seems completely irrelevant to the discussion. :)
Just my opinion...also pretty much completely irrelevant to the discussion when it comes right down to it, I suppose. :D :D :D
[QUOTE=Magnum Mike;515315]Got my flat side today. I didn't realize it would have black nitride hammer, trigger, and trigger guard. Maybe it was stated as such at the beginning and 3.5+ years later, I forgot!
I just checked a product photo from Nov 2019, and those components were shown as black. Makes for a classy look.
Well since the only source of info I had has "left the building" (SP forums are gone).
Any history of "who said what, to who, and when" is conveniently gone.
I remember SSK offering explanations and apologies in the past (long about the time they started offering REFUNDS) for some hold ups. I'm sure each time it was hard for them to come forward. I'm also sure that has been "conveniently forgotten" by some howler's.
Anyway, no longer matters. Product is being shipped. SOME customers will be happy about that. SOME will continue to complain like old women. Anyone still so righteously indignant about the whole thing will just continue to complain and make sure they get their $300 worth out of Marty's hide. Must suck to own your own business and still have to answer to 400 tyrants (actually just a VERY small percentage of the 400) because they each sent you $300.
I bet SSK CAN'T WAIT to offer the same deal to folks to bring out an Encore frame in the future. (that was sarcasm, by the way). Lessons learned on both sides, I would say.
12F, McGowen 6.5x284 1-8" twist, Nightforce 12-42x BR<br />BVSS, McGowen barrel, 22-250 1-9" twist, Nikon 6-18x<br />16 FHLSS Weather Warrior, Sinarms 257 Roberts, Pentax 3-9<br />Stevens 200, 223 bone-factory-stock, Nikon 3-9x<br />Scratch-built BVSS, LW 243 1-8" twist, Viper 6.5-20x50 mil-dot
So I was never part of SP Forums or anything concerning this debacle. I’m simply an outsider looking in. While I believe it’s wrong for a company to take money for orders they know are years out, its our responsibility as buyers, to do the research and be aware. If a person can’t wait, they can ask for a refund. The only time despairing comments are warranted, is when a company fails to meet a deadline, is contacted & asked for a refund and they refuse out-rite. However, no one should expect a refund out of the blue. Or, day to day updates. As was stated, these people are running a small business. Worst comes to it, anyone can file a charge back correspondence with their financial institution or lender. (I’ve had to do that one time for an On Line firearms parts provider.) Your money for products or service is guaranteed. And always make certain your payment has a paper trail. Don’t pay ahead for items with Cash or M.O. without a proper receipt. And never, EVER pay online with those untraceable gift cards or pay services. (Besides those we know are safe. PayPal, Venmo, etc.) Although I won’t even use those. Everything I do is through my Credit Union, Debit-MasterCard.
I didn't/don't have any skin in the game because I knew better. There was no need to post on social media daily. However, they should have sent a group email to everybody on the list every 3 months even if it was only to say nothing has changed. That would have taken 5 minutes or less every 3 months. I don't care how busy you are, if you can't find 5 minutes every 3 months to give people an update you aint much of a businessman. And yes, I have ran a business and would never leave people hanging like that.
Having said all that, I'm glad that people are starting to get the frames. Once they get caught up and they're proven to be of good quality I'll get at least 2 of them myself. I just can't understand how a company can take $$$ for a product, not deliver that product until almost 4 years later, & people think that there should be ZERO negativity is beyond me.
exactly! Keeping up with customers is number one…. Probably more so in a small market.
Ok, now I'm wondering if you spent any time at all on the SP forums? To be sure, the reference material (forum) is gone now, but still.
When you type something that is so disconnected with historical reality, I just wonder about you, and your motives. Guilty conscience? Bad memory? Lack of information? Need for revenge?
ZERO negativity?
Please.
For at least 2 of the last "almost 4 years" the "update" thread had TONS of negativity. You guys ALREADY had your pound of flesh (what, maybe half a dozen of you?). And still you want more. When will it be enough? When YOUR frame is in your own hands? When the very LAST frame on the list is shipped? When Marty is too old to continue SSK, and it goes away? When? Just curious, really.
I remained silent for the most part on the original threads (there were several), even when the fecal matter was flying, because a) I didn't have any skin in it myself, and b) I honestly figured that once production units actually started shipping, that the monkeys tossing the excrement would settle down.
So why do I care?
Simple. There are already damn few vendors out there doing (or still doing) ANYTHING for single shot pistols or any legacy T/C products. There are what, 3? 4? Maybe 5? that will still even make a barrel? And "now" (then, whatever) we had one step forward and announce an endeavor to actually MAKE NEW FRAMES. That is huge. "Our" market type is dying. They are no longer "cool" to the masses (if they ever were), and manufacturers follow the masses, as that's where the profits are. Not only were repair parts drying up, but prices on "normal" used frames have been getting quite stupid for the last few years. I hate to see the T/C platform go the way Colt did with revolvers until very recently. Colt revolvers were good guns, but they certainly shouldn't command the insane prices that "shooter grade" Python's and Anaconda's reached (and I do own an original).
So here we had what I'm sure (and no, funny enough I DO NOT know any of them personally), was a well meaning vendor offer up something amazing (if you like T/C products like I do) to the market. I think his first mistake was underestimating what it was going to take to get it up and running. I think his second mistake was offering ANYONE the chance to pre-order frames. I think he just should have kept the whole thing quiet and internal to SSK until he had production frames to market. I don't think he had any idea what a ticking time bomb he was starting up. Folks are folks. And do folk things. But "some" folks absolutely LOVE negativity and piling on when there's a chance to get in a good, solid kick when they can get away with it. I think Marty thought that the buy in ($300!!??) was so low, that no one would be sweating it in the long run. Chalk that up to not knowing "crowds" that well. Individual people are usually pretty decent. "Crowds" however, can be total hornet's nests. But I think in Marty's mind, no one was going to lie awake tossing and turning over their missing $300.
Again, no. I don't know them. I'm just speculating. I mean, here you have a guy with an already existing company, that had a long history of producing product in this specific market. The very notion that some folks would actually worry that he was going to abandon his entire company and run off to? What? Ecuador? With their $300 probably never entered his mind.
I also think he had no idea how "needy" (lets just call it that) Smith and Wesson was going to be over this project. That, along with, what was the total count of production casting companies that failed to deliver? 3? 4?
So I think some of this was Marty getting in over his head in dealing with other corporate entities, and some was taking casting company's at their word that they could indeed produce what was needed to the tolerances required. I'm sure it was a surprise when he had to turn away entire shipments of frame castings because they couldn't meet specs.
Anyway, refunds were offered AND RECEIVED by some, so the "offer" of refunds was not an empty promise.
New production frames are now shipping.
I'm done (I know YAY! RIGHT!) with this thread. You guys go forth and be as negative as you want (we'll say the last 2 years of "negative" don't count, just to make you feel better).
I wish SSK well, I will be buying my frames once my name comes up on the list.
12F, McGowen 6.5x284 1-8" twist, Nightforce 12-42x BR<br />BVSS, McGowen barrel, 22-250 1-9" twist, Nikon 6-18x<br />16 FHLSS Weather Warrior, Sinarms 257 Roberts, Pentax 3-9<br />Stevens 200, 223 bone-factory-stock, Nikon 3-9x<br />Scratch-built BVSS, LW 243 1-8" twist, Viper 6.5-20x50 mil-dot
Clearly, you either didn't read or didn't comprehend what I posted. I didn't say that there WAS zero negativity. I said that I couldn't understand how someone could think that there should BE zero negativity.
I was on the SP forum but under a different handle so yeah, I've been following this since day one. I too am very glad to see that these frames are finally being delivered and for pretty much the exact same reasons you pointed out.
You know what I have a 10 or so of original TC frames and they fit my needs. You all can argue all you want, I'm happy with what I have and won't be buying any new ones
As a side note, im pretty sure marty is just a “haus of arms” representative selling and dealing in TC products. SSK is owned by a separate outfit. I forget who/what company took it over.
Well y'all look at it like this. This thread had more replys then any other thread on Break action pistols. I guess whatever makes it work. Just my opinion.
Same ones that owned lehigh defense. Lehigh is now owned by Wilson combat.
marty is a retailer and has nothing to do with production.
Well for what its worth my son and went to Crittenden Ky today and he shot his new SSK flat side frame with 3 different barrels 22 Hornet .22 lr and 7-30 Waters. He shot a big bore 40, or perfect score with the 7-30 Waters barrel. Fell on his a$$ with the other two barrels but no shame on the gun, but the shooter. There was one hiccup as his 41 Mag barrel would not drop the interlock safety, so would not fire. This was a fault of the barrel not the frame, minor fitting will be required on this barrel. Some barrels required fitting on the original frames too. Lehigh Defense/ SSK Industry's were the producers of the frames and Hausofarms.com were to be the distributers as I understand it. We should get our 3 pre ordered/pre paid frames by the end of next week . I am not the most patient man in the world by any means but am glad I stayed the course as we will get something very good in the end. More when they come in.
Here is a Picture of my Son-in-law's new flatside SSK-50. He hasn't got to shoot it yet, but hopefully soon.
Safe Shooting
Doug
Enjoy Life but remember we are only practicing for something Better.
Yep, 2019 don't seem that long ago, but I was surprised as hell when I got my call and they said your new Lynx is in and ready to ship??? He had to remind me what the heck he was talking got about.
I'm looking forward to finding some sweet wood for it, and can't wait to get it in my hands.
But it kinda hurts when just last week I found a brand new in the box Sako 3 year 6ppc run of the Varmint /target single shot. Now that I am recovering from that cost, it seems like when it rains it pours, but two special guns in one week, that's like Christmas come early!
Hope they keep rolling in for the rest of you.
THat's a dream right there.
That's a fact! And if you comprehend what is being said here, you'll soon realize it! Folks are getting theirs daily.
By the way, how many do you have ordered?
I recently ordered two but I was referring to the Sako.
Well Marty called me Monday and said the next order was coming in on Friday thats today.So he has my money for two of the lynx. Been on waiting list since first of 2020. Happily waiting on my toys not so i can see them with the two custom grip sets by poppy dave. Already have some with ga jim that looks and works very well.
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