New Barrel Time

[Dave Hoback]

Just ordered a new barrel. Decided on Criterion from James at NSS. Came down to price. Just couldn’t pass up their deal. First time I’ve spoken to James. It was interesting, funny at some points. Now look, I understand he doesn’t know me, and as the business, he’s making sure that the customer has everything they need. But I almost wanted to say a couple times in a nice way, “look my friend, I know we haven’t met, but trust me I know what I’m doing.” Of course I wouldn’t do that, LOL! Like I said, it was just kinda funny. He repeated a couple times.. “are you sure it’s a Small Shank?” LOL. Yeees.. I’m sure partner! And he made a couple comments a bit off the cuff, at one point saying “that seems strange”. Anyway, nice guy. So I ordered a 28” Stainless 260 AI with .160” freebore. 1:7.5” twist.


I came so close to ordering a McGowen, but had an email conversation with someone there the day of, and got a red flag during. I’ve been doing all this long enough to know if you sense something wrong leave it be. Bit of a shame. I really did want to give McGowen a try. But I know the Criterion will perform, so I’m happy.

Now the 12-20 week wait for the barrel, LOL! Good thing I’m patient.

[Shooter0302]

Yep, but those that follow the 7 "P's" are always ahead of the game.

I'm guessing James has been bitten more that once on Bbl.orders and just wants to make 110% sure you'll are both on the same page

[Dave Hoback]

Yep, but those that follow the 7 "P's" are always ahead of the game.

I'm guessing James has been bitten more that once on Bbl.orders and just wants to make 110% sure you'll are both on the same page

Oh, I couldn’t agree more. No.., I get it completely. That what I said in the beginning, we’ve never met. So he has no idea of what I know. I wasn’t upset or anything. Just thought it was funny.

Same thing happens here at times. Be trying to help someone with a question and ask pretty basic, almost “DUH” questions. But I really try to explain it to those looking for help… “Hey, I’m not trying to disrespect your knowledge. It’s just we don’t know each other.” And yes, I’m sure he’s been blamed, yelled/cursed at for things that WEREN’T his fault because he didn’t ask every detail. So I got where he was coming from.

Was just sharing something I got a chuckle from. Actually, the one thing he commented on was the barrel crown. I indicated I wanted it recessed. I just prefer Recessed crazy and. And he asked, “you sure you want Recessed over 11 degree?” I told him yes, I was sure and just prefer them. (Being the only reason it’s an 11 degree crown is because they didn’t use 12 degree, or 17 degree, or whatever degree, FIRST, LOL!). But I said to him I simply preferred them Recessed and what some believe of barrel crowning is ridiculous. At that point I think he kinda got it, because he chuckled and said, “well, yeah… there’s no accuracy difference, just easier to clean.” I am glad he’s so thorough. And prompt! He sent me an invoice with all the detail within a minute of hanging up. I appreciated that. I’ll definitely deal with him again.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I think I've bought 2 rifles and a half dozen barrels from him many years ago.

Each transaction was smooth from my perspective. I think I still have 4 Mcgowen barrels, very pleased with them, but these were purchased over a dozen years ago.

[PhilC]

James is good and very easy to work with. Don't know that I'll build another anytime soon but he will be the first contact should I decide to.

[tomme boy]

Pretty sure I am going to order a new Criterion from him next week. As you said, it comes down to price. I have had one McGowan and had to send back to get replaced. The last 3"s of the bore looked like a cheese grater.

[astjp2]

Just ordered a new barrel. Decided on Criterion from James at NSS. Came down to price. Just couldn’t pass up their deal. First time I’ve spoken to James. It was interesting, funny at some points. Now look, I understand he doesn’t know me, and as the business, he’s making sure that the customer has everything they need. But I almost wanted to say a couple times in a nice way, “look my friend, I know we haven’t met, but trust me I know what I’m doing.” Of course I wouldn’t do that, LOL! Like I said, it was just kinda funny. He repeated a couple times.. “are you sure it’s a Small Shank?” LOL. Yeees.. I’m sure partner! And he made a couple comments a bit off the cuff, at one point saying “that seems strange”. Anyway, nice guy. So I ordered a 28” Stainless 260 AI with .160” freebore. 1:7.5” twist.


I came so close to ordering a McGowen, but had an email conversation with someone there the day of, and got a red flag during. I’ve been doing all this long enough to know if you sense something wrong leave it be. Bit of a shame. I really did want to give McGowen a try. But I know the Criterion will perform, so I’m happy.

Now the 12-20 week wait for the barrel, LOL! Good thing I’m patient.

I want to do something similar but in .264 wm, I was thinking VLD’s and a 1:7.5 twist. What are your thoughts Dave?

[Dave Hoback]

I want to do something similar but in .264 wm, I was thinking VLD’s and a 1:7.5 twist. What are your thoughts Dave?

Absolutely! The 264WinMag is another prime example of when I have said there ain’t nothin’ new under the sun. The 6.5PRC isn’t some ground breaking NEW cartridge. The 264WM can handle the heaviest & longest 6.5’s available. And actually take advantage of the high weight for caliber & super high BC of the 150gr+ pills now. (Unlike pretending they work in a Creedmoor case, meandering along at 2400fps??) No, the 264WM will actually send them with adequate velocity. Although, if I was building one, I look to a bit more Freebore. Personally though, I’m not a Magnum/Small caliber guy. But then, I’m not a Magnum LARGE caliber kinda guy either, LOL! However, I think your idea is fantastic if you have the interest. I HATE that the market is trying to bully us into buying certain calibers… the industry would have been super happy with me just getting a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel… (I’m sure James would have happy as well, had I simply ordered one of the 6.5CM’s he has on shelf) But the industry would be happy if I started believing the nonsense like so many others are now. For instance, how a guy tests & claims a load of 142gr SMK over 41.8gr (just over MAX load), of H4350 was good for 2660fps in a 27” barrel at one testing, but fast forward to 2019, he tests the same 142gr SMK pill over just 41.5gr of the same H4350 this time, (max load), and in a 26” barrel this go. And low & behold…. he NOW claims it managed to do 2770fps! Explain that one! Oh… and you can bet someone will try!

Anyway… don’t let the industry or FORUMS make your decision for you. Don’t ever feel you must do what everyone else does. Why? So you to can grab FACTORY ammo off the shelf (which is ALL loaded slower than they’re saying because, oh yeah! PHYSICS!) Do your own research, and go with what you have the interest in.

This is assuming of course, you have a firm understanding of & do reload your own ammunition. Because obviously, if you must rely on off the shelf ammunition, then it’s just smart to stick to what’s popular. Even if you do get accused of having a Man BUN! LOL!

[wbm]

_.

[astjp2]

Absolutely! The 264WinMag is another prime example of when I have said there ain’t nothin’ new under the sun. The 6.5PRC isn’t some ground breaking NEW cartridge. The 264WM can handle the heaviest & longest 6.5’s available. And actually take advantage of the high weight for caliber & super high BC of the 150gr+ pills now. (Unlike pretending they work in a Creedmoor case, meandering along at 2400fps??) No, the 264WM will actually send them with adequate velocity. Although, if I was building one, I look to a bit more Freebore. Personally though, I’m not a Magnum/Small caliber guy. But then, I’m not a Magnum LARGE caliber kinda guy either, LOL! However, I think your idea is fantastic if you have the interest. I HATE that the market is trying to bully us into buying certain calibers… the industry would have been super happy with me just getting a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel… (I’m sure James would have happy as well, had I simply ordered one of the 6.5CM’s he has on shelf) But the industry would be happy if I started believing the nonsense like so many others are now. For instance, how a guy tests & claims a load of 142gr SMK over 41.8gr (just over MAX load), of H4350 was good for 2660fps in a 27” barrel at one testing, but fast forward to 2019, he tests the same 142gr SMK pill over just 41.5gr of the same H4350 this time, (max load), and in a 26” barrel this go. And low & behold…. he NOW claims it managed to do 2770fps! Explain that one! Oh… and you can bet someone will try!

Anyway… don’t let the industry or FORUMS make your decision for you. Don’t ever feel you must do what everyone else does. Why? So you to can grab FACTORY ammo off the shelf (which is ALL loaded slower than they’re saying because, oh yeah! PHYSICS!) Do your own research, and go with what you have the interest in.

This is assuming of course, you have a firm understanding of & do reload your own ammunition. Because obviously, if you must rely on off the shelf ammunition, then it’s just smart to stick to what’s popular. Even if you do get accused of having a Man BUN! LOL!

Dave, we should chat so I can get an idea on extending the freebore before I order a barrel. I agree with your comments bot I am not 100% certain on twist. Tim

[Dave Hoback]

If you’re not certain, go 1:8.

[astjp2]

Ok, that’s easy

[Slowpoke Slim]

I'm shooting 139 gr Lapua Scenars and 140 gr Berger VLD's from my 6.5x284. It has a 1:8 twist McGowen barrel on it, and I haven't had any issues with bullets stabilizing.

I started off shooting 142 gr Sierra matchkings, but kept getting single flyers in each group. From talking to a guy at Bruno's Shooters Supply ( I used to live near there), he suggested I switch to the Scenars. My lone flyer issue went away.

Moral of the story, I don't know what bullet you want to shoot, but you may not need that 1:7.5 twist.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh Good grief! You guys completely missed my point!

It has nothing to do reaching certain speeds.. And even less to do with barrel twist!

Each is free to take from any of this whatever he may. God bless

[Slowpoke Slim]

Oh Good grief! You guys completely missed my point!

It has nothing to do reaching certain speeds.. And even less to do with barrel twist!

But no matter.. I’m not speaking to those with no ears to listen. Each is free to take from any of this whatever he may. God bless

If that was directed towards me?

I was replying to astjp2's comment about barrel twist. Nothing to do with your post at all.

I'm sorry for upsetting you.

I will refrain from contributing further.

[Dave Hoback]

No, sorry Slim. Not meant at you.. and not meant as a rebuke at all. The barrel twist comment was simply an afterthought. Also, no one upset me. I’m just talking like I would in a conversation. Not upset at anything. So please don’t stop replying on my account I did delete the “ears to listen comment.” I was trying to make a joke, but it didn’t work. Sorry it sounded like I was annoyed. Never was & all is well.

“Text” is the DEVIL in regards to misidentification of a person’s inflection, Ya know? LOL!

[Dave Hoback]

Today marks Week #4 on barrel lead time. Good thing I still have things to get done before I swap it out. I still need to machine the new Recoil Lug. I’m making one from 6AL4V Titanium, which will be the first one I’ve ever seen. Can’t even find a Ti Recoil Lug for sale aside for the ones made for the Tikka T3. But nothing for Savage Model 110 or Rem. Model 700. I got the Ti plate which is like 8mm/5/16”. I wanted to make one about that thickness, unfortunately I found out the barrel isn’t threaded deep enough, and will only accept 1/4” max thickness. Which is fine. I’m going to do another thread with pics when I make it, so this is just fyi, but one great thing is my Chassis is set up to allow any size Recoil Lug. I mean ANY! The recess for the lug is widened beyond the Action’s 1.305” diameter, and it’s under a tube handguard so it’s not even seen. I can make the Lug like a 1.5”L X 1.75”W rectangle if I want, LOL! J/K Of course I’m going to shape it accordingly. One thing, I’m trying to decide how I want to attach it to the Magnetic Chuck for my Surface Grinder Attachment. Wondering if I should just dab some crazy glue each cut/test, or should I make a steel holding jig for the Titanium part? Decisions, decisions.

[charlie b]

Have seen stuff get shot from a surface grinder. The stainless I used was not quite magnetic enough :) I'd make a stop plate from plain steel. Sides would be optional. Best would be to have a full jig of steel. Maybe countersink a screw that will go up into a tapped hole in the titanium part. Still, a 'stop lip' would be a good safety item.

[Dave Hoback]

I have a stop that is removable from the Mag Chuck Charlie. That was part of the design when I built it. But I can’t just lay the Ti part flat on the Chuck against the stop. It either needs glued down, or I’ll need to make a jig that acts as a mini “Vice”, which is likely what I’ll do.

This isn’t a giant floor mount Surface Grinder. It’s an SGA… (Surface Grinder Attachment). They are extremely popular with Knifemakers.. (Like me, LOL!) The design was first made by a Knifemaker/machinist named Travis Wuertz. He is a genius! And was actually featured on an episode of that show “Forged in Fire” on the History channel. He sells his design, the SGA-1 for like $2000. Well, some many years ago when I started my Knifemaking I couldn’t afford that, but I was at that point getting pretty heavy into machining/fabrication, along with the Knifemaking. So from his pictures & videos online PLUS my pretty incredible “search” ability, I was able to find all the special parts used in his design. And then from those pics/vids I was able to recreate his design almost exactly, and at a fraction of the price. Cost me about $250 back then. So I made a thread on a very popular Knife Making Forum for fellow DIY’ers to follow, and the rest is as they say.. History. I got a little “On-Line” recognition for about 12 minutes, LOL! Ya know, I was “That guy who figured it out” kinda thing. But then of course, several guys… (Money Greedy Douchers, as I call them), started making and selling them which I was completely against! Because Travis’ is still the best, just not everyone can just pony up $2K. And ehh, obviously can’t really patent a tool like that I guess. Same thing goes for my 2x72 belt grinder. They cost at least $2500 for a really nicely equipped unit with a powerful motor & using a Variable Frequency Drive. So instead, I built mine because that’s what I do. And yes… I have pics of building them & videos using them. LOL