Reply With Quotei always thought that a 1 in 10 was the magic rate for 30 cal. Least wise that rate has worked for me for 40+ years with 150-200 gr pills in multiple launching platforms.
I'm losing patience with this rifle.
12FTR, 308. I've tried Hornady & Fed brass, always sized, bumped & trimmed.
Varget, IMR4064, RL15 & Imr4895. Std and mag primers.
Hornady 155 & 168.
Factory Fed GMM 175.
Jump is from .005 to .030.
Best of all the combinations I've tried is 1" at 100.
And even that isn't consistent.
I have good ES & SD.
I hate the 1/12 twist. Now considering a new barrel.
Rifle is new.
Short of that, I'm lost.
[COLOR=#ff0000]Hello to all you nice folks at NSA :)[/COLOR]
i always thought that a 1 in 10 was the magic rate for 30 cal. Least wise that rate has worked for me for 40+ years with 150-200 gr pills in multiple launching platforms.
If it were me I would try taking a known good scope off of one of my other guns and putting on it to try to rule that out.
Has anyone else shot it besides you?
I just picked up a used 12FTR myself. I tried all kinds of factory ammo to get a base of what it might like (147gr up to 185gr). Try some Federal 185gr SMK and see what those do....My rifle loved those.Originally Posted by Texas Solo
Here is a 5 shot group of the 185gr.
I also got some really good results from Norma Golden tip Match 168gr and S&B Precision 168gr.
The best grouping was the 185's though.
I just loaded some 175gr matchburners with StaBALL Match powder to try them out. I have the same powders you listed as well, and will probably try them all just to see how they do.
It's hard to really pin point anything when you don't know the persons shooting or reloading ability (not saying you are bad at either).... But having another person also shoot it can eliminate a lot.
What makes you think the 1/12 twist is a problem? It's not the twist that I'd get but tons of small groups are shot with that twist all the time. Trying some premium 168 factory ammo would be a good start- and then in the reloading I'd try some more jump- .030 really isn't much jump. All of the bullets that you mention are bullets that don't need to be in the lands.
You might want to try some lighter bullets like 115, 125s for the short range. I can't blame the 1/12 on some of my rifles if I am not properly feeding them. Whatta Hobby!
Semper Fi
Sgt USMC 66-72
To answer some questions:
First, I am a Master Class F Class shooter. Been shooting F Class for 8 years. I seriously doubt that I'm the problem.
Yes, another top shooter has shot it. He only replicated my results.
I tried 175 Fed GMM ammo. It shot the same groups as my handloads.
Maybe it's not the 1/12 twist, but if I change barrels it's going to a 1/10.
Isn't it possible that I just got a crappy factory barrel?
[COLOR=#ff0000]Hello to all you nice folks at NSA :)[/COLOR]
Mine shot the 175s good and the Berger 185s shot best. 4064 was good. VV N150 was better. 210m's Got my masters at 600 and 1000 with the Bergers.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
168gn smk?
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Bad barrels happen all the time. That's one thing I like about my Savage rifles, takes just a few minutes to screw on another barrel, set headspace and give her a go. Been shooting for over 60 years and learn something new every once in awhile. Whatta Hobby!
Semper Fi
Sgt USMC 66-72
For some reason, I just noticed you listed the rifle is new. How many rounds have you put through it? Have you gone through and made sure all of the bolts are torqued to factory spec? I've had to re-torque bolts on almost every rifle I've owned when I first got it. The first thing to do when I get one now (new or used), I break it down, clean the heck out of it and re-torque everything to factory specs. Also, my new savage rifles have always shot about 1 MOA when new, then would tighten up after about 100-200 rounds. My 110 tactical in 6.5CM was real bad about it at first, took about 150 or so rounds for it to tighten up the groups. My Rem 700 in 308 was the absolute worst, until I tightened everything up and ran about 120-140 rounds through it.
I agree with Vince. Every rifle I buy I loosen screws & remove the Action. Check for any flashing material or any other hangups, reinstall the Barreled Action & torque screws to spec. I do the same with any scope base, rings, etc, that I didn’t previously install. Yes, it’s possible you have a, I wouldn’t call it “bad”, but perhaps that is the best it’s capable of. Of course that is possible. However, I recommend you check everything first. Unless you really, just simply want a new barrel in 1:10. In which case, just get the new barrel.
When I got the Rifle new, I had to remove the action to adjust the trigger. I also relieved the forestock in one area where it was not properly free floated.
All 3 action screws were torqued to Savage spec.
New scope & Warne steel rings were torqued and are still tight.
Rifle has 200 rds on it.
[COLOR=#ff0000]Hello to all you nice folks at NSA :)[/COLOR]
I also have a 308 Win rifle with 1/12 twist.
My experience with it is that 175 gr HPBT bullets don’t stabilize adequately with its 1/12 twist barrel.
Berger’s Twist Rate Calculator also predicts problems with 175 grain.
Also, in my gun, Sierra Match Kings in 168 are ok but weren’t great, but I found that 168 Berger VLD bullets would shoot a ragged hole at 100. (Maybe try some Berger bullets)
BigCrock
Is it too late to talk to Savage?
Berger 185 jug or OTM are on the edge of 1.5 factor. Don't know about the 175's.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Sorry, but I would have screwed a new barrel in it already.
No reason not to with a barrel nut rifle.
I've had several brand new Savage rifles with terrible barrels. They came off very easily.
12F, McGowen 6.5x284 1-8" twist, Nightforce 12-42x BR<br />BVSS, McGowen barrel, 22-250 1-9" twist, Nikon 6-18x<br />16 FHLSS Weather Warrior, Sinarms 257 Roberts, Pentax 3-9<br />Stevens 200, 223 bone-factory-stock, Nikon 3-9x<br />Scratch-built BVSS, LW 243 1-8" twist, Viper 6.5-20x50 mil-dot
You can't lump bullets into groups like that-- some of the higher BC (longer) 175 grain bullets are on the edge of stability with a 1/12 twist-- but he was shooting FGMM 175, and that is loaded with the SMK 175. That bullet is completely stable with a 1/12. Either way- it isn't shooting for him. So he can mess around with it and find the problem or replace the barrel.
Sometimes the ogive makes all the difference in the world.
Maybe try some Sierras.
I have a couple of rifles that wont shoot Hornady bullets for beans.
Darn thing will absolutely stack Sierras though
A good wife and a steady job has ruined many a great hunter.
Just remember, when you point a finger at one arrow, there are three pointing back at the Indian. Whatta Hobby!
Semper Fi
Sgt USMC 66-72
Spring is here. Plant a garden and use that barrel as a tomato stake. i plant Beef Steak and Roma's.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Excellent suggestion. Barrels are way less expensive than psychotherapy. Whatta Hobby!
Semper Fi
Sgt USMC 66-72
NOPE! Because I point with a “chopping” hand! LOL!!
Given the OP's experience I would say it is the barrel.
But, my 12BVSS took a few hundred rounds before it would shoot subMOA (along with some liberal use of Iosso paste). It is still sensitive to heating. Interesting point. A load I tried early on, that would only give me 1 1/2" groups, was tried again 4000 rounds later. Under MOA at 1000yd and 1/2MOA at 200yd. Yes, mine is a 1-10 twist.
FWIW, I'd take the 1-12 off your hands to try it out since that is a great setup for cast bullets :)
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