Reply With QuoteIf it’s a consistent trend, regardless of ammunition, it seems to be.
Last few times at the range I`ve noticed a pattern with my 110 Storm in .223. Starting with a cold, CLEAN barrel, I`m beginning to see a progression of 3 shots/group from around 1 MOA for initial group down to as little as .3 MOA by the third group. at 100 yards. Does this sound like normal fouling effects ?
If it’s a consistent trend, regardless of ammunition, it seems to be.
Sounds pretty normal to me.
It can be. My .223 barrel was one of those odd ducks. It shot to almost the same point of aim (within a few tenths) from first clean cold shot until it was heavily fouled and hot enough to cook eggs. My .308 barrel is the opposite. First round from clean barrel is always off, second one sometimes, #3 to about #50 consistent. After that fouling build up with start causing the velocity to rise with corresponding changes in point of impact. When it is hot the group opens. That's a barrel with a heavy varmint contour.
Back in my hunting days I zeroed and checked my rifle only from a cold, clean bore. Shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean. And not just a wipe, fully clean. By the time I was done cleaning the barrel would be cold so I could shoot again. I would also check for change in POI for the second and third shot, just in case :)
Some will do it a bit different. Foul the barrel and zero. Leave the barrel fouled for the hunt. Not much of a problem that way with modern powders and non.-corrosive primers
Does the group change POI or just get tighter? Lots of rifles will "throw" the first shot-- and then an equal number of people will describe it as "cold shooter"....
The thing to do if you really want an answer is testing and keeping track of the results so you can see the pattern. Try not cleaning the rifle and see what it does on the first shots. Then you can see if it is a cold bore shift or a cold/clean bore shift. Also- is it repeatable? Does it always have the same shift or is it random?
Then add on the fact that some barrels don't seem to experience this (at least to the degree that it is noticed or falls outside of the usual precision of the gun). I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't clean your barrel all that often. A little attention to the neck/throat to make sure you're not getting a carbon ring and then a few passes every couple hundred rounds. Definitely not the guy that shoots a box of ammo and comes home and cleans the barrel.
The groups don`t really shift positions, just progressively tighten. I`ll just not clean the barrel this time and re-shoot and see what it does on first group. I have trouble NOT cleaning my guns after hunting or range sessions. It`s how i was raised. Dad always said, " You cleaned that gun yet, boy? Take care of your equipment and it`ll take care of you." I guess a couple of years in the Pacific during WWII would tend to influence thinking about certain things!Originally Posted by Whynot
I understand the cleaning thing. I always did it that way cause I had no idea how long it would be until I got out to a range. For hunting I always carried a clean gun. Given wet conditions most of the time I didn't want the rust issue.
These days I shoot two of my rifles at least once a month and sometimes once a week. So, I clean only when needed, ie, when groups open up. That's about every 100-200 rounds depending on which gun and what ammo.
Back in the last century I spent a few years on an Army precision rifle team shooting a NM M14. Other than an exterior wipe down and cleaning the trigger group we did not clean our rifles during the match season. We were told that anything more could potentially effect accuracy.
Similar to the snipers I knew. But, they were happy with up to MOA groups too. More concerned with range, wind and angle of fire than a dirty bore :)
Always been that way for me as well. My firearms stay meticulous. I shoot it… I clean it! No matter it’s 1-round or 100! I’d rather the clean firearm than the slightly better groups from the start.
Wasn't there a guy on here that made barrels for a living? He would probably have some research on the topic....
My hunting guns do get a good cleaning when they go in the safe- and they only fired a few rounds- but it's not because of the round count- but rather the rain/snow/mud that I was packing them in. Any gun that may be grabbed and asked to make a first round hit on anything besides a paper target gets put up with rounds down the barrel. After cleaning it I will fire a few rounds just to get it back to normal.
I don't think anyone makes any corrosive primers anymore and I'm not worried about humidity because of environment and de-humidifier. But I look at barrels as a wear part. If I had a gun with sentimental value or wasn't going to be shot for a year or so then I would clean and put a coat of oil down the barrel for storage.
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