Shaw barrels

[Mr.Snerdly]

Would they be a good replacement for a factory barrel? Would the prefit barrels for Savage have the very long throat? Is is possible to have a barrel made to have a shorter throat? I imagine there would be an extra cost for this as well as an additional wait time.

I don't know if this is the right forum to ask this question but none of the others seems better.

[Dave Hoback]

Shaw barrels are fine, yes. No, they are not the top out there, however, many have shown to be outstanding shooters!

I have to ask.. Why on Earth would you want a shorter throat chamber? What cartridge are we talking about here? Best thing is to contact them. They will likely give you the SAAMI specs on the Chamber Reamer they use. I doubt they can go shorter. That would require a custom Reamer, which on second thought, perhaps they would do that. But you’d be looking at double the cost at least. (Price if new Reamer & Barrel). Best to contact them directly. Try to speak to a Tech., not a sales rep.

[Robinhood]

My experience with 2 shaw barrels: As accurate as any barrel I have owned.......for three shots. Copper build up was bad after 10 shots.Great for a cheap accurate hunting rifle.

[charlie b]

Have not had one. I decided to spend a little extra and get a Shilen.

Probably a good factory style replacement for a Savage. Rough, typical of button rifled barrels that are not lapped, like a Savage :) My Savage .308 was a copper mine for several thousand rounds. Now days it is pretty good, about 3000 jacketed and 3000 cast now (lost count).

[Shooter0302]

IF , you are asking about a 308W chambered Bbl. Criterion offers 4 different 308 chamberings.
Won't start a gripe about reamer makers and their different terminologies.

[Whynot]

I would not buy another Shaw barrel- even though the ones I've had shot pretty good. They do copper up pretty fast- but the main issue is the chambers. Never had one that did not have a huge chamber- so much so that reloading was very difficult-- had so send a few dies to the die company with some fired rounds and get the sizer die opened up. As a cheaper option they either use reamers longer than they should or have the new employee chambering them. If you just wanted a blank then you would probably be fine- but would not want another one that they chamber themselves.

[Mr.Snerdly]

Shaw barrels are fine, yes. No, they are not the top out there, however, many have shown to be outstanding shooters!

I have to ask.. Why on Earth would you want a shorter throat chamber? What cartridge are we talking about here? Best thing is to contact them. They will likely give you the SAAMI specs on the Chamber Reamer they use. I doubt they can go shorter. That would require a custom Reamer, which on second thought, perhaps they would do that. But you’d be looking at double the cost at least. (Price if new Reamer & Barrel). Best to contact them directly. Try to speak to a Tech., not a sales rep.

Well, it wouldn't make so much difference if they stayed the same but they keep getting longer as you shoot. My 223 Axis was very accurate up until the last few times I shot it. It used to be anywhere from 3/8"-3/4" depending on the bullets and if I was doing a good job. I have done better than that several times but I consider it a fluke when I get much below 3/8" with any bullet. Now about the best groups are 3/4" no matter what bullet. I just measured the distance to lands relative to recommended OAL for a specific bullet. The 77 grain Sierra is almost .300" off the lands at 2.26". I know you can seat them longer than that but even seating them way longer than what is supposed to be is still way off the lands. I really don't think the closeness to the lands is nearly as important as I once thought, some bullets shoot better with quite a jump but I would think there is a limit. I was also shocked to find out how much the throat has eroded. On 20 Jun 2021 the OAL of the 77 grain Sierra was 2.484" and today it is 2.552 with the bullet touching the lands. That is a lot of wear. I do shoot a fair amount but I know the rifle couldn't have 2500 rounds through it and I am pretty sure it would be closer to 2000, if that much. I am beginning to think the drop in accuracy is due to the barrel getting worn.

[Wildcat]

Welcome to the world of "chasing the lands" of a barrel. By this I mean adjusting your bullet seating depth to maintain whatever jump you originally determined to be optimal for your chosen bullet and powder charge. I have always used the general rule of thumb that barrels erode approximately 0.004" for every 100 rounds fired. Some barrel and cartridge combinations erode quicker, some slower. The 0.004" number is not written in stone and is most useful for simple quick back of the napkin calculations. There are many more factors than contribute to throat erosion that simply number of rounds fired.

Have you loaded and fired any rounds made to account for the measured throat erosion? If you can, that is perhaps the best way to confirm your suspicions about your drop in accuracy. The 2.260" COAL you mention is just the SAAMI standard. SAAMI is a manufacturer's ANSI standards organization, not a handloader's organization. Their standards are all about how to manufacture ammunition and guns in ways that maintain cross-compatibility among various platforms. The handloader has the ability to tailor his ammunition to his particular equipment. A manufacturer of ammunition has no idea whose gun it will end up in so they have to make it so it will work in any gun chambered for the cartridge. That's what complying with the SAAMI standards allow them to do. But that's a very different situation from the one a handloader is in. A handloader isn't required to follow the standard, though it can make a good starting point for your own load development.

The last thing I will share is that it is best to think of a rifle barrel as a consumable commodity just as you think of powder, primers, bullets and brass. A barrel will not last forever. How long a barrel lasts is dependent upon your personal subjective definition of "accurate barrel life". A barrel that is deemed inaccurate for competition may have plenty of life left for a colony varmint shooter, a coyote hunter, or a deer hunter whose shots are inside 150yards.

The great thing about being a member of the brotherhood of the barrel nut is that you have the ability to change barrels, twist rates, and chamberings quickly, easily, and as frequently/infrequently as you desire, want, or need.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, it wouldn't make so much difference if they stayed the same but they keep getting longer as you shoot. My 223 Axis was very accurate up until the last few times I shot it. It used to be anywhere from 3/8"-3/4" depending on the bullets and if I was doing a good job. I have done better than that several times but I consider it a fluke when I get much below 3/8" with any bullet. Now about the best groups are 3/4" no matter what bullet. I just measured the distance to lands relative to recommended OAL for a specific bullet. The 77 grain Sierra is almost .300" off the lands at 2.26". I know you can seat them longer than that but even seating them way longer than what is supposed to be is still way off the lands. I really don't think the closeness to the lands is nearly as important as I once thought, some bullets shoot better with quite a jump but I would think there is a limit. I was also shocked to find out how much the throat has eroded. On 20 Jun 2021 the OAL of the 77 grain Sierra was 2.484" and today it is 2.552 with the bullet touching the lands. That is a lot of wear. I do shoot a fair amount but I know the rifle couldn't have 2500 rounds through it and I am pretty sure it would be closer to 2000, if that much. I am beginning to think the drop in accuracy is due to the barrel getting worn.

You are SO correct. Distance to lands is not anywhere near what some are led to believe. Accuracy difference between .000” to even .120”+ off the lands is usually measured in more like 10’s of thousandths, not 1/4 inches or more! But of course worn lands will affect accuracy negatively.

I also agree with Wildcat. Barrels certainly should be considered a consumable.

[Mr.Snerdly]

^^^^Has it ever been known to happen a barrel could be defective? This barrel has eroded so much more than another 223 that has been shot roughly the same amount in the same time period. I measured both rifles back in 2021. The other one is still very accurate.

[charlie b]

Accuracy difference on jump can be significant, depending on the bullet and the jump (and your intended application). I went back and looked at the seat depth test when I developed the loads for the 155gn Bergers in the .308. No jump the group was about 0.3". Groups increased until the maximum jump I tested at 0.100 and the group size was 1.25".

OTOH, Sierra Match Kings of any flavor I have shot in three different calibers show only minor changes in group with some pretty large changes in jump. Hornady ELD's are almost as tolerent, although one I tested showed a distinct preference for short jumps (difference was about 1/2MOA).

And, yes, barrel steel can be 'defective'. Unless it was very obvious a mfg probably won't do anything about it, simply because there are so many factors in how much a throat erodes.

[Mr.Snerdly]

^^^^I think the amount of erosion is a lot for a 223. I imagine a 26 Nosler would wear more than .004" per 100 rounds, wouldn't surprise me if it was a lot more than that, maybe double or more. A 223 I would think would be less than that. The other 223 wore a little over .008". I do think the Savage shot a little more but I would say it would be reasonably close. Both were measured on the same day in 2021. They were measured several times but I didn't write down the figures for the other dates. I now have a record of the measurements on the March 23 date.

I think I will try some Sierra 69 grain and seat them as far out as I think I can get away with and try again and if it still won't shoot, investigate a new barrel. Even seated out as far as possible it will still be a LONG ways off but the Sierras seem to like a pretty good jump.