Seating Primers

[PhilC]

As I mentioned in an earlier post , I use a Sinclair hand primer. Not long ago I picked up the 21st Century hand primer that you
can set to seat primers exactly the same depth every time. Well I soon found some primers were crushing and some were not bottoming out. These were those Federal primers.

^^^^^^^^^^^

This answers nksmfamjp's question posed to me why uniform. You can't have consistent seating if pockets aren't the same depth. If you believe mass produced brass primer pockets, by any manufacturer, are perfect, press on.

I purchased my Sinclair hand priming tool same year it was released and have been using it, and their pocket uniformers, ever since.

[Robinhood]

I use a Hollands primer pocket uniformer, and hand prime with a Sinclair. I never have
a proud primer other then the occasional high anvil. I get practically none with BR2's
and more then I want with Federal Champions, and only use those for fire forming.

If you are wanting expecting a higher level of accuracy other than just plinking, you first have to consider what others that share you interest in accuracy and precision believe.
Fuj is not the only accuracy/precision minded person here but is an example of the direction you might want to investigate. He has proven over time what is effective and can produce long strings of shots fired into small groups that most would be proud of. Looking at what he post it is obvious he has a process that is effective.

Opinions are a dime a dozen on the internet, proven processes are the crux.


I used a sinclair for years. If it is still being made, you would be hard pressed to use your money wiser.

[Fuj']

I primed 50 cases using the Lee shell holder and none of them protruded above the base of the case and the CBTO of the loaded rounds were more consistent. None of them showed daylight between the jaws of the caliper and the base of the case. I think the issue was using the Redding shell holder. I’ll look into a hand primer, I can already see the manufacturers have lots of different theories about what works best.

Sometimes a good ol' "WTF" then trial and error works the best. Keep at it....You'll learn
something new with each reloading session.

[charlie b]

Yep.

Heck, I'm still learning to shoot as well!!! Just figured out today my biggest 'flinch' is not really a flinch. I start to lift my head as I pull the trigger!! Didn't see that one coming.

[PhilC]

If it is still being made, you would be hard pressed to use your money wiser.

It is but currently out of stock Sinclair hand priming tool.

[FoxHunter]

Every single person reloading for accuracy will use a hand primer, primer pocket reamer and primer pocket cleaner. Tumbling alone don't cut it. Also, the primer holes must be drilled to the same exact same size.
All casings have to be same length and weight. An inside neck reamer must be used, and all bullets and powder hand weighed.

[Stumpkiller]

I primed 50 cases using the Lee shell holder and none of them protruded above the base of the case and the CBTO of the loaded rounds were more consistent. None of them showed daylight between the jaws of the caliper and the base of the case. I think the issue was using the Redding shell holder. I’ll look into a hand primer, I can already see the manufacturers have lots of different theories about what works best.

I've used Lee gear, and I've used Redding gear. I would not doubt some discrepency due to mixing them . . . but I'd bet $5 the Redding was closer to spec. I like Lee a lot but Redding is one or two shelves up, so to speak.

[Robinhood]

It is but currently out of stock Sinclair hand priming tool.

Figures!

[Ernest T]

I've used Lee gear, and I've used Redding gear. I would not doubt some discrepency due to mixing them . . . but I'd bet $5 the Redding was closer to spec. I like Lee a lot but Redding is one or two shelves up, so to speak.

I figured that out right after opening the box! It cost a lot more though.

[nksmfamjp]

Every single person reloading for accuracy will use a hand primer, primer pocket reamer and primer pocket cleaner. Tumbling alone don't cut it. Also, the primer holes must be drilled to the same exact same size.
All casings have to be same length and weight. An inside neck reamer must be used, and all bullets and powder hand weighed.

I appreciate your opinion, but in general, within the last 5-10 years, most accuracy minded reloaders, whom are competitive, are using a bench tool with some kind of stop. I believe in the last few years, this is often the CPS tool from primal rights. There are probably still a handful seating by feel which seems possible, although not super repeatable.

I’m not sure this is much better than the hand tools with a stop like the K&M as long as the Reloader has a way to get to the stop on every round and there is little tool flex.

[South Prairie jim]

I'm having a difficult time obtaining consistent primer seating depth with my Lee Classic Cast press. Sometimes they appear to be seated slightly below the base of the case and other times they are slightly proud. Needless to say, this is affecting my finished CBTO measurements. I'd say the measurement varies from .001-.003. It doesn't seem to matter if I tumble the brass or just wipe it off and clean the pocket with a case conditioning tool. I'm using the Lee case conditioner to clean the pocket. The raised ring around the flash hole in the picture is consistent. Am I supposed to remove this lip around the flash hole before seating the primers? It definitely keeps the primer pocket cleaner from reaching the bottom of the primer pocket. I've been using a pick to remove the residue that's left after cleaning the pocket.

Wow’ you should not have any raised lip around the flash hole at all.. something is wrong, in fact those are quite possibly the oddest primer pockets I’ve ever seen.

[Robinhood]

I appreciate your opinion, but in general, within the last 5-10 years, most accuracy minded reloaders, whom are competitive, are using a bench tool with some kind of stop. I believe in the last few years, this is often the CPS tool from primal rights. There are probably still a handful seating by feel which seems possible, although not super repeatable.

I’m not sure this is much better than the hand tools with a stop like the K&M as long as the Reloader has a way to get to the stop on every round and there is little tool flex.

If you use a Primal Rights, do you have to uniform pocket depths? That is a chore but it may be neccesary if one goes that direction. Going to have to go check out and see what they suggest. Did I mention uniforming pockets sucks when doing 100 +or-.


speaking of D-Orkan

[Fuj']

Did I mention uniforming pockets sucks when doing 100 +or-.

That's what winter time is for....LOL Last month I finish 386 cases of my SA284 wild cat, and 412 of my
284-ELF. With a cold beer, streaming a good movie, and a towel on my lap to catch the brass cuttings,
It's not so bad. Something about being able to kick your feet up helps. Or maybe it's the beer.....

[charlie b]

I think it's the beer Fuj :) Something about numbing the mind? :) Or just so you forget how mind numbing it was? :)

One of the several reasons I like living in the southwest. I can shoot all winter.

[GrenGuy]

Along with this thread it is CRITICAL to:
1. Sort primers according to weight
2. Sort primers according to pocket height
3. Install primers with .004” CRUSH. Determined by Alex Wheeler to be optimal
These steps are absolutely critical to ACCURACY

PLEASE POST TARGETS DEMONSTRATING THE VALUE OF THESE STEPS !

[Ernest T]

Watching YouTube videos, it seems like there is no perfect hand primer, they all seem to do the job, but seem to have a quirk or two that someone doesn't like. I'm leaning toward the Lyman hand primer, any reason I shouldn't?

[Robinhood]

That's what winter time is for....LOL Last month I finish 386 cases of my SA284 wild cat, and 412 of my
284-ELF. With a cold beer, streaming a good movie, and a towel on my lap to catch the brass cuttings,
It's not so bad. Something about being able to kick your feet up helps. Or maybe it's the beer.....

I have to know, do you use a jar openener pad to hold the brass? My thumbs would be tired after 100!!!!

[South Prairie jim]

Watching YouTube videos, it seems like there is no perfect hand primer, they all seem to do the job, but seem to have a quirk or two that someone doesn't like. I'm leaning toward the Lyman hand primer, any reason I shouldn't?

21st century click adjustable hand primer is the cats meow’ however and it’s worthy of repeating that your primer pockets should NOT have any raised lip or deformation. You may want to solve that puzzle first.

[Ernest T]

21st century click adjustable hand primer is the cats meow’ however and it’s worthy of repeating that your primer pockets should NOT have any raised lip or deformation. You may want to solve that puzzle first.

So, it looks like the issue is my decapping pin is larger than the Lapua flash hole. It displaces a small amount of brass which makes that ring. Some people have removed it, others have not and it doesn't seem to make much difference in accuracy. I can tell you removing it with my Lee case conditioner takes a lot of force and will be a chore for 200 rounds of brass. I'm about halfway through the life of this brass so I might just live with this for now and look for a smaller decapping pin when I start on my next 200 rounds

This pic is from another forum.

[Ernest T]

Looking at my brass, this is obviously the issue. I measured the pins and the Redding decapping pin is .058 across while the Lee is .068.

New, unfired brass vs old brass.



Redding, on top, which I'm using now, vs Lee die which I used to reload this brass 7 or 8 times.

[South Prairie jim]

Yep’ I recommend you get the right size decapper pin before you ruin any more of that good brass. Then set your primers to bottom out in the pocket plus a slight crush.

[Ernest T]

Yep’ I recommend you get the right size decapper pin before you ruin any more of that good brass. Then set your primers to bottom out in the pocket plus a slight crush.

I use the Redding die with the small pin now, but I didn't know I had an issue before. I have another couple hundred Lapua cases, I'm glad I didn't use them.

[charlie b]

At least the mystery is solved. I never knew there were different size flash holes until I got the 6BR. Do small primers have smaller flash holes or is it just that brand brass?

[Ernest T]

At least the mystery is solved. I never knew there were different size flash holes until I got the 6BR. Do small primers have smaller flash holes or is it just that brand brass?

It's brand and cartridge specific, a few use them. This is from the 21st Century website for their flash hole uniforming tool.

"Cutters are available in standard (.082” flash hole) or small (.062” flash hole). Most cartridges will use the .082” cutter, but the small flash hole (.062”) version is used in cartridges such as the 6mmBR family, 6PPC, 6/6.5x47 Lapua, 308 Palma. 6/6.5 Creedmoor with small primer in Lapua and Hornady brass, and 6.5 Grendel to name a few). "

[Fuj']

I have to know, do you use a jar openener pad to hold the brass? My thumbs would be tired after 100!!!!

I sure don't do em' all in my sitting !! LOL Sometimes I use a Mechanix glove with the gripper fingers.