Reply With QuoteEveryone I know who is interested in Precision Reloading seats primers with a Hand Priming Tool. A press is way overkill. I always get consistency with Lapua Brass.
I'm having a difficult time obtaining consistent primer seating depth with my Lee Classic Cast press. Sometimes they appear to be seated slightly below the base of the case and other times they are slightly proud. Needless to say, this is affecting my finished CBTO measurements. I'd say the measurement varies from .001-.003. It doesn't seem to matter if I tumble the brass or just wipe it off and clean the pocket with a case conditioning tool. I'm using the Lee case conditioner to clean the pocket. The raised ring around the flash hole in the picture is consistent. Am I supposed to remove this lip around the flash hole before seating the primers? It definitely keeps the primer pocket cleaner from reaching the bottom of the primer pocket. I've been using a pick to remove the residue that's left after cleaning the pocket.
Everyone I know who is interested in Precision Reloading seats primers with a Hand Priming Tool. A press is way overkill. I always get consistency with Lapua Brass.
Have you checked the primer cups themselves for consistency? I use a Lee Auto Bench Primer.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
You could spend a Kajillion dollars on one of those tools like the one that D-Orkan Primal Rights guy makes. He swears by it making a difference. Buuut… This duf is the biggest Savage hater I’ve come across. He hates them so much, he straight up LIES about things. Not only that, but he hates Savage owners as well. Because of that, I wouldn’t trust anything comes out his mouth. So I wouldn’t buy one… I’ve even seen WBM argue with his nonsense.
I use a Hollands primer pocket uniformer, and hand prime with a Sinclair. I never have
a proud primer other then the occasional high anvil. I get practically none with BR2's
and more then I want with Federal Champions, and only use those for fire forming.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
I agree that a press isn't needed to seat a primer, but with all that leverage, I shouldn't have any proud primers!Originally Posted by GrenGuy
I thought about this a little on my walk this afternoon and I think it got worse after I bought the Redding bullet seating die and the Redding shell holder. I wonder if there is something about the Lee shell holder that makes it work better with the Lee press or something with the Redding holder that makes it not work with the Lee press. It's something that needs exploring anyway.
How do you do that? I only use the small primer cup on the single stage press because the 6.5 CM is all I reload on it.
I’ve used the Lyman EZEE hand primer for years now and love it. Seems I get consistent results… then, I don’t go crazy checking, so who knows… could be a few Thous off maybe. I don’t worry about it.
I noticed it when I got inconsistent CBTO measurements on newly seated bullets. Playing around with the calipers, I noticed daylight between the caliper and the base of the case, the primer was keeping it from touching the base. I should take those rounds apart, and reload them after ensuring the primer is at least flush with the bottom of the case, but I'm not going to. I am going to try to find out why that happens.
Lee shell holder on the left, Redding on the right. I measured the two shell holders with calipers and the measurement highlighted by the red arrow is larger than the same measurement highlighted by the yellow arrow. I tried to come up with a theory as to why one of these might cause variable primer seating depths, but gave up. In the end, I put the Lee shellholder in the press and seated 10 primers, and all of them seated below the base of the case. It's not definitive, but it certainly is suggestive that the Lee shellholder is built to work with the press primer seating geometry and the Redding shellholder is not.
Hmmm.. that’s kinda interesting. Well as it turns out, all my. Shell holders are Lee anyway. They were always the cheapest, LOL!
With no brass in the press, how far into the shell holder dose the seating pin protrude into the shell holder? CM , Im assuming all your brass is the same lot # and rim thickness should be the same.
I would suggest switching to a hand held seating tool. They all have there quirks and advantages. With only one caliber, you can leave it set up and not care about the ease of changing. The RCBS Universal is the only one that will release a case with an extreme fail to seat, such as a primer that turned sideways. But it is also the hardest to use with jaws instead of an easy slide in shell holder. Standard RCBS uses there shell holders with the counter sink on the bottom. Some brands of shell holders are flat and do not fit will. Lee requires a separate set of there shell holders. Never had an issue with any as fare a breakage. I use RCBS trays in my Lee's. They have a feed shut off.
RCBS trays interchange with Lee so you can close them off and remove them with out spillage. Also works in there presses.
.223 Rem AI, .22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI .243 Win AI, .6mm Rem AI, .257 Rob AI, .25-06 AI, 6.5x300wsm .30-06 AI, .270 STW, 7mm STW, 28 nosler, .416 Taylor
I prime all of my cases on my Lee classic turret presses, and use Lee, Hornady, RCBS, and Redding shell holder's. I've never had a single issue priming any case with any of them.Lee shell holder on the left, Redding on the right. I measured the two shell holders with calipers and the measurement highlighted by the red arrow is larger than the same measurement highlighted by the yellow arrow. I tried to come up with a theory as to why one of these might cause variable primer seating depths, but gave up. In the end, I put the Lee shellholder in the press and seated 10 primers, and all of them seated below the base of the case. It's not definitive, but it certainly is suggestive that the Lee shellholder is built to work with the press primer seating geometry and the Redding shellholder is not.
I think you are over thinking the process.
I use a LEE Challenger single stage for all of my reloading, and have been using the LEE priming tools that attach to the press (2-3 different versions are available). IF you see one of those primers being proud, just slip the round into a hand held primer seater to seat it a little bit more. I usually prime all of the cases first (just one press in the house) and check them with a fingertip, and possibly set stand it up on the loading table to see if it wobbles. Then I use the handheld primer seater tool to finish it off.
I messed around with the two shellholders last night and couldn't really see "the reason" for the inconsistency with the Redding. I guess I'll be looking at YouTube videos of hand primers.
Similar here except I use Sinclair uniformers and, depending what I'm loading, either my Sinclair hand priming tool or RCBS bench prime.
With a micrometer. Take a primer and measure from the base to the rim. Large rifle primers can be anywhere between 0.1230” and 0.1360”. Small rifle from 0.1150” to 0.1260”
But for any given batch they should be close to identical. I have found the occasional CCI200 that is shorter in a tray of 100.
https://ballistictools.com/articles/...d-diameter.php
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
If you are sure a hand primer is the best thing since sliced bread, I’m not sure what I can offer. First, have you ever spent any tech’s at the primer companies? They communicate a similar story. Basically seat until the anvil touches and then just a bit more. None of them could define a bit more. They could all define too much. That is when the compound is broken. None had any testing about how much a bit more is. Is it worth controlling the amount of a bit more. None of them had any data or testing related to that so no opinion.
Erik Cortina and Greg seemed to agree that this “bit more” control was important, but how much remains unclear….I cannot define “a lot”.
The other things the techs agreed on is that hand priming would be really hard to control due to very high force to seat right.
So, I take from that….I need a high force tool that will stop before I break the compound. As a side benefit, if Erik and Greg know what they are talking about, a precise stop could be important….or not.
Basically I agree with what you are saying. Here is something to consider. Most reloading tools you buy and use some cost you about 20% to use….somewhat time and wear dependent. The CPS seems to resell, sight unseen, for same as current website price. So whether you like it or not, there is low risk to try it.
There is a similar competitor made by Holland’s. Looks pretty good. I ordered one. Shipping was 300% of normal shipping and they charge 5% to use a card. Both of these are non-refundable. The product price is refundable unopened. It comes wrapped in paper and tape. So, I couldn’t even look at it. On the phone they warned me not to push too hard as people break the handle. I have heard this other places too. So, is the Holland an equal competitor? Not sure. You decide.
I would disagree. The primer company tech don’t disagree, but they agree force can be very high. Hollands has customers and students that break the RCBS handle and their improved handle. I don’t think my hand primer can do that! So I need more force!
Why do you use a uniforming tool? What are you uniforming to? You likely need control from the top of the rim to the bottom of the primer pocket. I think I trust Lapua or Alpha to control that.
So, yes, I’m trying the CPS. It seems to work as advertised. Would like to build some data that shows it builds ammo with more accuracy, same or worse. Would like some depth testing too.
I've loaded over 56,000 rounds with one of two RCBS universal hand primers - I used one for about 25,000 rounds and got tired of having to switch between small and large primers so I bought a second and set up one primer for each type of primer.
I have never had a protruding primer.
Even now that I am almost 80 and my hands are getting pretty weak, I still have no problem seating primers that are appropriately deep in the primer pockets.
The RCBS Universal hand primers don't use shell holders like the older RCBS models. Never had to worry about shell holders either.
Maybe someone else is, but I am not talking about a protruding primer. I’m talking about seating until the anvil touches and a couple thousandths more. That will be 0.005-0.008” below flush.
I have used hand primers a lot over the years, mainly the older Lee model (round trays) and the Hornady (cause it was the only one in the store when I needed one).
Most of my priming now is on my Lee Loadmaster...but...it has been modified. I changed it to a hand operation. A removable extension was added to the factory lever. So the case is raised to the upper position and then the lever is used to seat the primer, much like many of the bench primers you can find on the market. I like being able to feel the primers seat.
For my 'good' brass I use a primer pocket uniform tool. I had heard about the flash hole burr on some Lapua brass and it was suggested to remove it.
As your not the OP, he probable was not referencing your comment, If he even read it.
.223 Rem AI, .22-250 AI, .220 Swift AI .243 Win AI, .6mm Rem AI, .257 Rob AI, .25-06 AI, 6.5x300wsm .30-06 AI, .270 STW, 7mm STW, 28 nosler, .416 Taylor
I like a good argument....First off, my targets tell me if My method works. I hand prime
so I can feel the primer bottom out. As for going a bit more ?? I try not too. But if you want
to, hand priming is the way to do it. I've measured enough primers over the years, to know
that even the best vary in thickness. To set a mechanical device and do them all the same
will hurt your accuracy and why most all true bench rest shooters hand prime. I see there
was a mention of Eric Cortina. He's a good shooter and does win (in his game) I see he just
won the nationals. To be straight forward....Eric would get his head handed to him Shooting
short range 100/300 group and score. It's a different reloading game where if you don't
shoot in the minimum of low 2's, you go home.....As I mentioned in an earlier post , I
use a Sinclair hand primer. Not long ago I picked up the 21st Century hand primer that you
can set to seat primers exactly the same depth every time. Well I soon found some primers
were crushing and some were not bottoming out. These were those Federal primers. Checking
thicknesses told me what was going on. All in all, I decreased the amount of fliers I was having
by uniforming and hand priming by feel. That's my method, and it works. I compete, I can't
afford to be sloppy in any area of assembly. I'll save weight sorting primers for another argument
other then to say quite a few of the top IBS and UBR shooters do it.....
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
I primed 50 cases using the Lee shell holder and none of them protruded above the base of the case and the CBTO of the loaded rounds were more consistent. None of them showed daylight between the jaws of the caliper and the base of the case. I think the issue was using the Redding shell holder. I’ll look into a hand primer, I can already see the manufacturers have lots of different theories about what works best.
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