Elftmann Savage Trigger

[GrenGuy]

I got this trigger and have been working with it. Out of the box, with the pull weight set screw engaged by only 1 thread, it broke at about 1 1/4 pounds. I removed the original spring and replaced it with a shorter ink pen spring, and got it down a little less than a pound. During this testing, I noticed some creep. The “step” that the Savage sear has to traverse, is .026”. Only about .012”/.014” is needed for good engagement. No matter how I set it, I have not got it to bump fire. I have closed the bolt with some authority, and it still doesn’t trip fire. Not sure, but I think the Savage sear is responsible for the creep. This trigger has adjustment only for pull weight and safety adjustment. It has no adjustment for sear engagement or over travel. I ordered some springs and did some experimenting, got it a little lighter, but still not where I want it to be. Found a lighter spring, ordered 4, received 6. This spring got it to just above 8 ounces. Now we’re getting somewhere.

I wondered what what it would do with the spring and piston removed. When the bolt cocked, the trigger set. Bumping the action against the Terazo floor didn’t trip it. On My Wheeler spring gauge, it broke at less than 8ozs, call it 6. I lubricated the sear edge and trigger shelf with graphite, and it broke at half way between 0 and 8ozs, call it 4 ounces. I decided I like using the straight trigger blade, without either of the included Trigger Shoes installed. With My finger at the bottom of the blade, it gives maximum leverage. I will continue to work with it and dry fire, if it will continue to operate at 4 ounces, I will declare success. At this setting, there was no noticeable creep.

A trigger set this low will only be used on a “Cold Range”. Bolts installed only after muzzles facing a safe direction and the command given. I’ll have to do a temperature check, because I once adjusted a trigger at 75 degrees, and when I took it out in 40 degrees, it tripped when I closed the bolt.

The spring that got it to 8ozs came from Century Spring Corp., MW Industries, Inc. CSC Item 60567S, Description COMP O= 0.148,L=0.357,W=0.016

Thanks All, any comments or personal experiences heartedly welcome

[DML1979]

I see your post is a few years old but I though maybe you could shine some light on this for me….I own the model 12 target action 308 FTR ..original trigger is becoming harder to pull and even cleaning it still not the same. Could you tell me what exact trigger replacement goes with the model 12 FTR target action ….I almost started cutting springs etc and even considered dremel work on it …I know I can fix it but I’m looking for a mint replacement
something better than the accutrigger. Any suggestions?
thank ahead of time I hope. This reaches you

[GrenGuy]

Welcome to the Brotherhood. Actually, My thread is a little over 3 months old. Your rifle has the coveted red blade target trigger. I can’t imagine what could be wrong with it that adjustment can’t fix. Before You cut springs or Dremel, please make sure You understand exactly what You are doing. Those parts are difficult to replace at this time. And there are many who would love to have Your trigger exactly as it is.

Perhaps if You could provide more detail describing Your problem we could be of more help? There are plenty here with vast experience with Your trigger. Do You have a trigger pull weight gauge? What pull weight would be acceptable to You?

The Elftmann Trigger I mention in this thread will work on Your action, as will other Savage triggers, but I don’t know that You really need a replacement. As I said, Your trigger is coveted.

Let Us know, and Good Luck

[DML1979]

Well you are right....it’s a great trigger and runs flawlessly however over time the pull weight has increased from
the super light (almost light enough to set off closing the bolt) ounces to what feels like pounds now. The grease (not sure what) that originally was put on the sear but it’s gone now. I’ve tried to use a few different kinds of grease but nothing worked so I cleaned it and used lighter fluid ( this cleans it as well as leaves a thin lube). Do you think a new spring kit could fix the problem?

[Robinhood]

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=LP-250

[charlie b]

That has me curious. I wonder if regular anti-seize will work as well? I think an experiment is in my future :)

[charlie b]

Well you are right....it’s a great trigger and runs flawlessly however over time the pull weight has increased from
the super light (almost light enough to set off closing the bolt) ounces to what feels like pounds now. The grease (not sure what) that originally was put on the sear but it’s gone now. I’ve tried to use a few different kinds of grease but nothing worked so I cleaned it and used lighter fluid ( this cleans it as well as leaves a thin lube). Do you think a new spring kit could fix the problem?

I wonder if it is the sear surfaces that are the issue. Maybe a burr has developed on one side? Or is the bolt spring binding somehow causing more tension on the bolt side.

[GrenGuy]

^^ Could be something like this. We know this trigger can work and work well.
A while back I got a 12FV that came with some of that thin black grease slathered on the sear and blade. I left it there and the trigger, to My surprise, adjusted down to 13 ounces.

But this is My thread, and it is about the ELFTMANN Trigger. So please Gentleman, let’s not lead it too far astray.

Thanks, GG

[GrenGuy]

I shot a couple of 600 and 1,000 yard matches in April and May using the Elftmann trigger, set at 8ozs. I didn’t want to shoot the matches at 4ozs without the spring and piston, because if it caused a DQ, the money invested in travel and entry fees would have been waisted. Also, I had the trigger installed in a 6BRA that I haven’t gotten dialed in yet, so it’s not My best shooting rifle at this time. The rifle shot as well as expected and the trigger didn’t cause any noticeable issues.

I need to put the necessary time in to work with this trigger, and shoot it in a rifle that is known to have winning accuracy. That may not happen until the Fall. In the mean time, I can continue to work with it and dry fire, and see what progress can be made. And, I can use this time to locate a lighter spring that would allow the piston to be used and still keep the 4oz pull weight. That would give Me more confidence in a match. GG

[GrenGuy]

TTT, Rejuvenating this thread because of current interest .

[WeeHooker]

I'd add to @grebguy s excellent info and document an easy and cheap source for a lighter replacement spring for the Elfmann Savage 110 trigger.
I just installed the Elfmann Savage 110 flat trigger into my 12BVSS ( bench rifle) with a lighter McMaster Carr #9657K611 spring in place of the factory one. Turns out the new spring is near identical in every way with the exception of wire diameter. The factory Elfmann uses a 0.021" D wire and this one uses 0.014"D. Consequently, the new spring is a direct , drop in replacement but significantly lighter. See comparison below.
For the record, all I did was to swap out the spring and installed the trigger. Nothing else was done in the way of polishing/fitting. While it had the ability to go lower, my Elfmann trigger is now adjusted to as a safe , crisp and consistent (+/- 0.5 oz) 12.5 oz which is just where I want it.
Link to replacement spring:


https://www.mcmaster.com/9657K611/

[WeeHooker]

I should note in full disclosure that I feel there are some "issues" with the trigger. Most notably, there are two:
1) It's noisy/gritty. The detent piece was not smooth/polished and emits a fairly loud scratchy sound when activated. I don't hear it on the short travel trigger pull/break but it delivers a moderate rasping sound when you pull the trigger in an uncocked scenario( like when removing the bolt.) I have no doubt that this unnecessary grittyness is NOT good in a trigger system but admit I could have got a bad part. ( This part should have been tumble polished at teh factory!) I've contacted CS.
2) The tiny screw that holds the shoe to the blade could be problematic. It's uses a minute Allen key to tighten the shoe so that it squeezes onto the blade to hold it in place. This screw seems like it could strip out easily. the problem being is that the shoe is just wide enough that it will not fit through the trigger slot in the stock. i.e. The blade must be removed every time the stock comes off. If that screw gets stuck in there, it's going to take a drill (and allot of nerve) to get the gun apart. This is a poor design of a critical path component in the opinion of this retired Mechanical Engineer.
Don't get me wrong, the ELF trigger works well but it's not perfect. We'll see what their CS department says about all this.

[WeeHooker]

Update: Eleftmann CS told me to send the trigger back to them for rebuild/repair. The trigger was just too crunchy and noisy to keep as is so I sprang for the $11 to ship it to them ( They provided no shipping.) They got it today so I should know soon what they intend to do. I'm my mind, I don't see how it can be repaired. I'm hoping for a complete replacement . As for the trigger shoe, I'll either leave it off or grind the 0.010" off the sides required to get it to slip through the trigger guard. All disappointing to say the least. Stand by.

[Robinhood]

I should note in full disclosure that I feel there are some "issues" with the trigger. Most notably, there are two:
1) It's noisy/gritty. The detent piece was not smooth/polished and emits a fairly loud scratchy sound when activated. I don't hear it on the short travel trigger pull/break but it delivers a moderate rasping sound when you pull the trigger in an uncocked scenario( like when removing the bolt.) I have no doubt that this unnecessary grittyness is NOT good in a trigger system but admit I could have got a bad part. ( This part should have been tumble polished at teh factory!) I've contacted CS.
2) The tiny screw that holds the shoe to the blade could be problematic. It's uses a minute Allen key to tighten the shoe so that it squeezes onto the blade to hold it in place. This screw seems like it could strip out easily. the problem being is that the shoe is just wide enough that it will not fit through the trigger slot in the stock. i.e. The blade must be removed every time the stock comes off. If that screw gets stuck in there, it's going to take a drill (and allot of nerve) to get the gun apart. This is a poor design of a critical path component in the opinion of this retired Mechanical Engineer.
Don't get me wrong, the ELF trigger works well but it's not perfect. We'll see what their CS department says about all this.

Reading your posts i recognize a couple of issues that could/may have impacted your experience. read your post and see if anything stands out.

[Dave Hoback]

LOL! I see some issues.. One shooter drops $150 on this trigger & immediately starts replacing parts and wanting to alter it. The 2nd shooter drops $150 on it and ends up not liking it. It’s the only aftermarket trigger which does not use a Sear adjustment. To me that is reason for dismissal.

[GrenGuy]

LOL! $150 is nothing in this game. Not even 1 years hazmat fees or shipping cost. Since when is altering or modifying anything Savage a big deal? LOL!

[Robinhood]

I have to modify. I go into "TILT" mode if can't figit with it

[charlie b]

ROFLMAO

Yep. The engineer's creed. If it's broke it needs to be fixed. If it isn't broke, it needs to be improved.

[Robinhood]

ROFLMAO

Yep. The engineer's creed. If it's broke it needs to be fixed. If it isn't broke, it needs to be improved.

Haha! Yep!

[GrenGuy]

ROFLMAO

Yep. The engineer's creed. If it's broke it needs to be fixed. If it isn't broke, it needs to be improved.

My interest in the Elftmann Trigger, or any other Savage Trigger, is to acquire a trigger that is suitable for bench rest competition. I am not an engineer, but I am a Millwright (retired). Our job is to fix it, and if possible, improve it. Anyone competing in Light Gun and Heavy Gun with a Savage platform, is at a considerable disadvantage because of the trigger (or lack there of). We have to deal with the mechanical disadvantage, which translates to a mental disadvantage. There are so few of Us in the Brotherhood who compete, its nice to hear from those who do.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh I’m all about modifying, (even though I’ve been accused of having someone else making the things I post). But I like modifying stock components or making things from scratch. I don’t enjoy spending money, to then spend more time/money to change it. If I’m making a purchase, I research up/down, sideways and here & there until I find exactly what I want & know it will work correctly. Except with 1911 triggers..because that’s just the nature of building a 1911. (Every part needs fit with them.) This is why I haven’t purchased any of the aftermarket Savage triggers to this point. None have shown to me, to offer a great deal more performance than a properly worked factory trigger. I was quite hopeful of the Jard, but it soon showed the “kinks” in its armor. Although I’m confident I could work it into a decent performing trigger, it’s just not worth the $220 for the slight increase in performance I might get over my stock trigger. And to be honest, I do enjoy a Safe Action trigger like the Accutrigger. They offer 100% defense against accidental discharge. It simply cannot fire unless the trigger is pulled. Same reason I love Firing Pin Blocks (FPB) in pistols. I think more than a few people would be quite surprised with how pleasant my worked Accutriggers feel. THAT is the kind of modification I really enjoy. Taking either materials or something stock and modifying to perform within a very close margin to the best money can buy. I know many of us here do the same and understand how gratifying it is.

Despite those feelings of mine, I’m glad for anyone who is happy with their purchase. But the fact remains in this thread that one person was quite happy, (although they altered the original). And one person was, it seems, quite unhappy, resulting in the product being sent back for a look. I hope we here the outcome.

[WeeHooker]

So here is the outcome.
I shipped the trigger back on my dime and they had it for over a week. When I inquired, they said they were waiting on "parts from Oxide". Yet, when I got it back Monday, it appears to be the same trigger I sent them with a note that they lubricated the detent and I should do the same. ( Parts were lose in bag, center screw had my Loctite on it, no Loctite on detent spring retaining screw, missing wrench's. IF they replaced anything, they did a good job of keeping it a secret. ) It was still somewhat "crunchy" sounding out of the bag. When installed, (no adjustment) it seemed to work "OK" to about 20 oz but is still noisy when cycled in non cocked position ( even after a little moly grease in the detent hole)..
So I AM an engineer. ( Mechanical /Systems with 33+ years experience of design, prototype and support in military weapon systems) and will say that the issue with the trigger shoe component is by design. Specifically, The shoe is 0.045" wider than the inside of the mod 12 trigger guard so it will not fit through (even if the trigger guard is removed and rotated) . Therefor , the shoe has to be installed/removed every time the action is removed /installed. There is NO way around it unless you leave the shoe off and just use the blade.
To further exacerbate things the shoe is intended to be clamped onto the blade via a small screw with a TINY (0.05") hex key arrangement. It takes some decent torque ( as in bending the wrench) to tighten the shoe and keep it from moving. The screw is clearly under designed as well. I feel it's just a matter of time before the screw head strips out and leaves the owner with having to cut the trigger blade out of an assembled rifle. If you wanted to use the shoe, the best alternative would be to file the trigger guard opening (at least on a Mod 12) . FWIW, the trigger does break pretty cleanly (with no crunch). BTW, It does have a rudimentary adjustment for sear engagement too but I haven't messed with it. After initial test, I changed the spring and now have a decently crisp 13 oz pull ( without shoe installed which is how I will run it)
Summary: For the $150+ invested, and the issues encountered, I would not buy another. However, it's better than the factory trigger as issued. Especially after a spring change. Maybe I'll replace it with another brand at some point but I'll try it awhile first.

https://www.elftactical.com/ELF-SAVA...gger_p_48.html

[charlie b]

I am glad you made those observations. I probably would not have bought one simply because of the trigger shoe. Have never been a fan of one. I'd do as you have and just leave the shoe off.

[Dave Hoback]

What do you mean a rudimentary adjustment for the sear? The 2 adjustments I see on it are on the back, one for the trigger spring & one for the safety. Is there a third not shown? Can you expound please?

[GrenGuy]

Yes. As for Me, the shoe contributes nothing. I have absolutely no use for it, and therefore, don’t use it. But since it is unnecessary and optional, it is no reason not to buy the trigger, if it can suit your purpose.