Oldie but goodie? Savage model 16

[Trav]

Hello all! IÂ’m a new guy to the forum and honestly new to forums in general. IÂ’d like to start out by saying thank you to all for making this possible. ItÂ’s nice to have a place to ask questions and have discussions about your hobbies.

Anyways, first of many questions iÂ’m sure, I recently purchased a Savage model 16 in 7mm rem mag from a good friend of mine. IÂ’m a greenhorn hunter, fell into the rabbit hole of best rifle calibers for medium to large game hunting, and found myself very intrigued by the ballistic capabilities of the 7 mag. Was lucky I guess that I had a friend asking if I wanted to purchase this Savage from him as he is interested in the new 7PRC. Through my research IÂ’ve found out this rifle seems to be pre accutrigger as it has the flat back action. Living out west, my hopes are make this rifle capable of long range shots, hopefully fairly accurate to 1000 yards. I donÂ’t plan to take an animal at that distance, but knowing the gun is capable will give me the extra confidence as it is very common to be unable to get closer than 400-500 yards to game in the areas I hunt. My question is does anyone know if this gun is capable of accuracy at 1000 yards? Preferably using Hornady ELD-X factory ammo? It is completely factory stock, including the original silver Bushnell 3-9x34 scope it came with. I plan to put a better scope setup on it for better distances, I just want to know if the gun itself is capable, or is there are other mods recommended to make it capable.

I had a bad experience with my first rifle, a cheap Remington 770 in .270win. I spent a good amount of money attempting to make it my hunt rifle and found it wonÂ’t shoot ammo consistently that isnÂ’t named Remington core lokt.

Thank you all for your time!

[bootsmcguire]

Most any rifle is "capable" of 1000yds, it just depends on how much time, money, and effort you want to put into it. That being said, there are a great many Savage rifles out there with minimal modifications shooting to 1k. Obviously as you stated, an optics upgrade is a must. That is a rabbit hole of debate as far as which is best etc etc but don't be afraid to spend money on glass and mounts. Cheap mounts will make even the best scope be at risk for POA failure when you need it. Rule of thumb many people follow is spend 1x to 2x the amount you paid for the rifle on optics/mounts (just as a general rule of thumb, and of course there are always exceptions to the rule).

The 7mm Rem Mag is a popular and quite capable cartridge that with the right loads can take on almost everything you would ever want to hunt in North America.

If you are comparing this model 16 to your prior Rem 770 then you will be in for a very nice surprise. The Remington models 710 and 770 (basically the same rifle with the 770 replacing the 710) are for all purposes trash. Very cheaply made, wear out quickly, not usually very accurate. Many new shooters bought these because it wore the Remington name and lived off of the fame of the model 700, however it could not be further from the 700. If you want a truck/atv gun that you know you're going to destroy a 710/770 MIGHT be up to that. I tried to help people in the past that owned them and eventually had to explain that it is what it is. Got most of them at least switched over to an Axis since many of them need to stay at the entry level financially speaking.

[Trav]

Thanks for the quick response! Yes the 770 is the only thing I can compare the model 16 to, it’s my only other rifle. After spending some money on the 770, I had it shooting fairly consistent, best group was 1.5 MOA using 130 grain core lokt. I switched over to some factory high BC ammo and there was no telling where the rounds would hit. I wanted to venture in to finding out why, did the basic checks, switched back to core lokt ammo and I was right back where i started around 1.5 MOA. I decided the gun just wasn’t worth the time and energy as I assumed exactly what you said, it is what it is.

As for the model 16, basic plans of new solid picatinny rail, good scope mounts and scope, and I’ll hit the range and see where I’m at. I was mostly concerned that the factory barrel may not stabilize the new higher BC ammo of today, assuming that is the issue with my 770. I can’t find much negativity out there about the 16 so I’m feeling confident. I’ll be sure to update here on findings. Thanks again for your time!

[wbm]

I think you have a Savage Model 116 rather than a Model 16. I have one in 7mm Magnum...also flat back.

[Whynot]

1000 yards is very do-able with most factory guns... It is far enough that wind is a issue and needs to be accounted for- but not so far that you have to be a wind expert (unless you need first round hits).

If it is a decent shooting gun and you have the ability to spot misses you can generally walk the rounds in.

As mentioned the scope is very important- as well as consistent ammo- and by that I don't mean small groups at 100 yards. You need ammo that has consistent muzzle velocity and a consistent bullet that is going to act the same as the last one you just shot- so you can make changes and have those changes matter. With inconsistent ammo you really find yourself chasing your tail-

The factory stock is not the best option for longer range- but if you want to keep it your hunting rifle then you can probably make it work.

Do you have good fundamentals? (not that you need to answer that to me- but we all have to be honest with ourselves... if we don't have the basics down then we will see inconsistencies on the target- and blame them on the gun/setup even though we are the problem).

And lastly- have realistic expectations-- Yes, 1000 yards is doable, but still challenging. People train for it and shoot matches all the time, but even then you have your off days and poor results- with top of the line equipment.

[Trav]

Thank you for the correction wbm. I literally jumped on to correct my post. After looking around the forum I found an old post from J.Baker posting the serial number prefix. Found out the rifle was manufactured in 1997. Did a little searching and found the action length to model number difference. It’s in great shape for being 25 years old. Really wish I knew more history on it. All I know is I’m the third owner and the previous owner only ever shot Winchester Super X 175 grain factory ammo through it with good results. It speaks volumes to me about savage rifles that he had good results with a scope that wasn’t mounted correctly and had moved forward in the rings.

[Dave Hoback]

Howdy, & welcome. Boots & whynot gave great points. I agree whole heartedly. Your 116 will tap 1000yds. no problem. I’m sure you’ve heard it, but if not, I’ll say it anyway; reloading is the way to go for overall consistency & therefore, accuracy potential. As stated, scope, mounts & rings are parts to invest in. I recommend lots of research. Asking questions like “who uses what”, I’d stay away from. You will get as many different answers as there are people posting! Everyone has their favorite. Don’t listen to any one person! Or even two or three! No, do your own research. Any modern scope of quality will get you to 1000yds & beyond quite effectively. Anyone who says otherwise, I have hours & hours of videos showing people doing it with with many, many different optics of different price ranges. I’ll say this: expecting precision long range shooting with a $100 Optic is foolish, no doubt! But thinking a $2000-$3000+ Optic is needed is equally foolish. I don’t know your budget, so I won’t speculate. With that, mounts/rings are equally important, as Boots mentioned. I’ve seen more than once, I’m sure he has well, those who spend a good bit of money on a quality firearm & Optic, only then to use JUNK mounts/rings. The trigger is another avenue. Check your trigger, if able. You may have a 3-screw. Those can be tuned as is, and if you’ve the ability, (or know someone), can be worked to provide outstanding trigger operation. I’ve even heard somebody here does Free trigger jobs for other members.

[Trav]

1000 yards is very do-able with most factory guns... It is far enough that wind is a issue and needs to be accounted for- but not so far that you have to be a wind expert (unless you need first round hits).

If it is a decent shooting gun and you have the ability to spot misses you can generally walk the rounds in.

As mentioned the scope is very important- as well as consistent ammo- and by that I don't mean small groups at 100 yards. You need ammo that has consistent muzzle velocity and a consistent bullet that is going to act the same as the last one you just shot- so you can make changes and have those changes matter. With inconsistent ammo you really find yourself chasing your tail-

The factory stock is not the best option for longer range- but if you want to keep it your hunting rifle then you can probably make it work.

Do you have good fundamentals? (not that you need to answer that to me- but we all have to be honest with ourselves... if we don't have the basics down then we will see inconsistencies on the target- and blame them on the gun/setup even though we are the problem).

And lastly- have realistic expectations-- Yes, 1000 yards is doable, but still challenging. People train for it and shoot matches all the time, but even then you have your off days and poor results- with top of the line equipment.

I 100% agree on fundamentals. I’ve had some decent training from an old school hunter/reloader. Taught me about breathing, squeezing, bad habits and good. I know a lot of it comes with time and effort, and that goes for at the range and away from it. I have a ton to learn and by far I am no expert in any category. Competition shooting is something I may be interested in for the future, but for me now it’s all about confidence for the hunt. Simply speaking to you all here has already aided in that, and I am grateful for it. Knowing I’m starting with good tools is huge.

[Trav]

Howdy, & welcome. Boots & whynot gave great points. I agree whole heartedly. Your 116 will tap 1000yds. no problem. I’m sure you’ve heard it, but if not, I’ll say it anyway; reloading is the way to go for overall consistency & therefore, accuracy potential. As stated, scope, mounts & rings are parts to invest in. I recommend lots of research. Asking questions like “who uses what”, I’d stay away from. You will get as many different answers as there are people posting! Everyone has their favorite. Don’t listen to any one person! Or even two or three! No, do your own research. Any modern scope of quality will get you to 1000yds & beyond quite effectively. Anyone who says otherwise, I have hours & hours of videos showing people doing it with with many, many different optics of different price ranges. I’ll say this: expecting precision long range shooting with a $100 Optic is foolish, no doubt! But thinking a $2000-$3000+ Optic is needed is equally foolish. I don’t know your budget, so I won’t speculate. With that, mounts/rings are equally important, as Boots mentioned. I’ve seen more than once, I’m sure he has well, those who spend a good bit of money on a quality firearm & Optic, only then to use JUNK mounts/rings. The trigger is another avenue. Check your trigger, if able. You may have a 3-screw. Those can be tuned as is, and if you’ve the ability, (or know someone), can be worked to provide outstanding trigger operation. I’ve even heard somebody here does Free trigger jobs for other members.

Thank you for the feedback Dave. I have an optic in mind that I will likely go with. I won’t post that here though as I feel confident in my selection. I am curious however on ring opinions. I need to do more research.

As for reloading, that’s definitely something i’d like to get into and will at some point. When all the dust settles from the funds spent setting up this rifle, I’ll start researching and investing in that area.

Thank you for the info on the trigger. To be honest I haven’t had the time to visit the range yet to see how it feels in its current state. I’m willing to bet it’s still set to whatever the factory setting is. I’ll look into what I have and get back with you. Thank you so much for your time!

[prdatr]

You shouldn't have any problems with the ELDX. I watched a hunter shoot an Elk at 885 yards a few years ago with a 6.5 PRC and the Elk went 25 feet and fell over. I have shot HSM ammo with the 168 Bergers in my 7MAG out to 425 and it is very consistent.
I don't like it for hunting as it only penetrates a few inches before it grenades. I took an Elk two weeks ago using Barnes 160gr TTX at 400 and the bullet was on the opposite shoulder just under the skin.

[charlie b]

Welcome. Where in NM?

The 7mmRM is a great round for long range hunting. The rifle should do well.

I like the Hornady ELD-X and ELD-M bullets. They did well in my .223, 6BR and .308Win. I'd try them and maybe some Federal with Sierra Game Kings.

Accuracy will depend on finding the right load and you. Pretty sure the rifle will do 1MOA or better. The recoil will take a bit of getting used to. I'd recommend only shooting a few rounds at a time. The slim barrel also means it will heat up faster so 3 round groups is what you should start with. So, shoot 3. Take a break. Shoot 3. Take another break. etc. If you feel or see a flinch then stop and regroup, or even pack up for the day.

I'd recommend a good recoil pad. I use one even when just shooting my .308 with heavy loads (175 and 210gn bullets). Mine is a PAST magnum and it works really well.

[prdatr]

A "safe" trigger below 2 pounds is what you will want/need to shoot that far.

[Trav]

Welcome. Where in NM?

The 7mmRM is a great round for long range hunting. The rifle should do well.

I like the Hornady ELD-X and ELD-M bullets. They did well in my .223, 6BR and .308Win. I'd try them and maybe some Federal with Sierra Game Kings.

Accuracy will depend on finding the right load and you. Pretty sure the rifle will do 1MOA or better. The recoil will take a bit of getting used to. I'd recommend only shooting a few rounds at a time. The slim barrel also means it will heat up faster so 3 round groups is what you should start with. So, shoot 3. Take a break. Shoot 3. Take another break. etc. If you feel or see a flinch then stop and regroup, or even pack up for the day.

I'd recommend a good recoil pad. I use one even when just shooting my .308 with heavy loads (175 and 210gn bullets). Mine is a PAST magnum and it works really well.

Las Cruces, NM. Looks like you are in my neck of the woods. Small world!

Yes I’m going to try the ELD-X and I will look into the federal you recommended. See which the gun likes better, at least for now until I start reloading.

For recoil, I’ve already installed a limbsaver pad, but I was also thinking about a muzzle break. The barrel isn’t threaded so I’d have to try and trust a gunsmith with the task of threading. Makes me nervous. I’ll likely take it out first and see if the pad is enough and the flinching away.

[Trav]

A "safe" trigger below 2 pounds is what you will want/need to shoot that far.

Do you happen to know what the stock pull weight is? The gun is likely unchanged from factory settings, but I’m not 100% on that.

[Robinhood]

A "safe" trigger below 2 pounds is what you will want/need to shoot that far.

Agreed. Safe is an operative word that cannot be understated if using a non accutrigger.

[J.Baker]

Lots of good advice so far, so I'll try to be brief with a few additional bits...

I think the first order of business will be to find out exactly where the rifle is at now in terms of accuracy before you start spending money and changing anything. Obviously a scope upgrade is going to be needed and sounds like you already have that planned out, so once you have that done go out and shoot some groups to establish a baseline. The reason I say this is because 1) you're starting with a used rifle with unknown history so who knows how many rounds have been run through it or how well or poorly it was cared for; and 2) if you don't know where you're starting from you'll have no idea what needs addressed or be able to tell if anything you do in the future has made things better or worse.

As for a muzzle brake, the factory sporter barrels are too small in diameter at the muzzle to have threaded for a break, and thus to thread the muzzle the barrel would have to be shortened a good bit to get back to a diameter large enough to be able to thread. This would be counter-productive on a 7mm Mag. That basically leaves you two options: a heavier contour replacement barrel that really wouldn't be ideal for lugging around while hunting in the vastness of NM on spot and stalk hunts, or a clamp-on brake like those made by Whitt Machine. Personally I'm not a fan of clamp-on brakes, but many folks here have used them to get the desired result with good success and it negates the need for a heavier barrel or shortening up your existing barrel to have it threaded.

If this rifle still wears the original "tupperware" synthetic stock, I would recommend that be one of the very first things you look at upgrading. These stocks are literally made from recycled milk jugs and are notorious for having a ton of flex in both the fore-arm and wrist areas. Probably the cheapest upgrade option out there would be a factory take-off wood or laminate long-action stock, or a newer AccuStock. A Boyds replacement would be another budget friendly option but a bit more money. The aluminum chassis style stocks are all the rage these days, though they're heavy and not really what I would suggest for a back country hunting rifle. They're also all setup for a heavy barrel so your little sporter barrel would look quite odd in that large barrel channel.

[Whynot]

As for a muzzle brake, the factory sporter barrels are too small in diameter at the muzzle to have threaded for a break, and thus to thread the muzzle the barrel would have to be shortened a good bit to get back to a diameter large enough to be able to thread. This would be counter-productive on a 7mm Mag. That basically leaves you two options: a heavier contour replacement barrel that really wouldn't be ideal for lugging around while hunting in the vastness of NM on spot and stalk hunts, or a clamp-on brake like those made by Whitt Machine. Personally I'm not a fan of clamp-on brakes, but many folks here have used them to get the desired result with good success and it negates the need for a heavier barrel or shortening up your existing barrel to have it threaded.

.

That's the way that I see it also- but... if you REALLY want a muzzle brake on that barrel a good gunsmith can probably do it. As J Baker said there is not enough material to thread and have a shoulder for the muzzle brake, but they can square the front of the barrel off and index it off of that- instead of a shoulder. This requires more work and a custom made brake (which equals more money) and I don't think it would be worth it.... but have seen it done.

What you find out is that anytime you ask a rifle to do more than one role you have to make compromises.... you can use a hunting rifle for a target rifle or vice versa but it is not idea in one of the situations.... or you can build one up that sits in the middle- but then it is not perfect for either task.

[charlie b]

Las Cruces, NM. Looks like you are in my neck of the woods. Small world!

Yes I’m going to try the ELD-X and I will look into the federal you recommended. See which the gun likes better, at least for now until I start reloading.

For recoil, I’ve already installed a limbsaver pad, but I was also thinking about a muzzle break. The barrel isn’t threaded so I’d have to try and trust a gunsmith with the task of threading. Makes me nervous. I’ll likely take it out first and see if the pad is enough and the flinching away.

Hi, yep, same backyard. If you see someone else with a Savage at the 1000yd range, it's might be me :) I'm usually out there at least once a week.

[prdatr]

If you have a set of calipers measure the diameter of the barrel and then talk to a gunsmith or to one of the muzzle brake manufacturers. My Remington 700 has the factory sporter barrel and was threaded 30 years ago with no problem.

[Trav]

I’m going to do exactly what Baker siad to do, take the gun out as is and see where it’s at. But I have already put on a limbsaver airtech pad. I bought the pad for my Remington 770 before I knew just how trash that gun was. A slight modification to the pad made it fit on the 116. In your alls’ professional opinions, will the pad be enough and I don’t need to worry about a brake?

[Dave Hoback]

I’m going to do exactly what Baker siad to do, take the gun out as is and see where it’s at. But I have already put on a limbsaver airtech pad. I bought the pad for my Remington 770 before I knew just how trash that gun was. A slight modification to the pad made it fit on the 116. In your alls’ professional opinions, will the pad be enough and I don’t need to worry about a brake?

Yes, that was the general consensus from several of us. Sorry it wasn’t more clear. But yeah, should never replace a bunch of components to start. Always have a base line and upgrade parts accordingly.

The limbsaver pad will be fine. I wouldn’t use a brake for 7RM, but that’s up to you. I’m not a fan of muzzle brakes. Noise makers & percussion intensifiers they are!

[charlie b]

The brake is a personal thing. Depends a lot oh how much you plan on shooting it and how well you manage the recoil.

There are a lot of guys who have used the .300Win Mag in shooting competition without brakes.

[Trav]

Anyone have a recommendation on a picatinny for the flat back? Talley or EGW? I’d like one with a bubble level built in but can’t seem to find one for a flat back.

[Dave Hoback]

Both are good. I prefer the Talley myself. I’ve always been a big fan of their scope rails. I use the Short Action, 20MOA rail and love it. Great look. Great fit. Exceptionally high quality. And Talley gives great customer service.

Honestly, the bubble level rails are a gimmick!! Think about it… when you are on scope, the bubble level in the rail is far too low to see. You would need to come off scope & move your head/eyesight down to see it correctly. Which completely makes the point of having it moot! Where as the scope tube mount bubble level is right there at eye level, easily seen from the corner of one’s vision without ever coming off scope or target.

Watch out for gimmicks! Something might seem like a good idea until you put it into practice. Trick is to really think about its use BEFORE wasting money on a gimmicky product.

[Trav]

Both are good. I prefer the Talley myself. I’ve always been a big fan of their scope rails. I use the Short Action, 20MOA rail and love it. Great look. Great fit. Exceptionally high quality. And Talley gives great customer service.

Honestly, the bubble level rails are a gimmick!! Think about it… when you are on scope, the bubble level in the rail is far too low to see. You would need to come off scope & move your head/eyesight down to see it correctly. Which completely makes the point of having it moot! Where as the scope tube mount bubble level is right there at eye level, easily seen from the corner of one’s vision without ever coming off scope or target.

Watch out for gimmicks! Something might seem like a good idea until you put it into practice. Trick is to really think about its use BEFORE wasting money on a gimmicky product.

That’s a very valid point and makes complete sense. I’m glad I asked! I’ll stick with a scope mounted level.

I was just looking at the Talley website and they offer a scope-ring base combo for the flat back. The description sounds great but I’m a rookie so I may be falling for another gimmick. I’ll copy and paste the description below…

“Made in America, these Savage pre-Accutrigger Scope Mounts made by Talley Manufacturing offer a unique and simplified one-piece scope ring and base solution for Savage pre-Accutrigger rifles with flat rear receivers. This simplified mounting system eliminates the possibility of an “out of alignment” interface or “loose connection” between the ring and base of traditional two-piece designs. Ultimately this provides more strength and durability than rival steel rings and bases, but with a lighter overall weight. Fully CNC machined from lightweight aircraft-grade aluminum to the industries tightest tolerances, this rigid scope mounting platform requires no lapping and is ready to go out of the box.”

Sounds like a no brainer for $55.95. I’m too gullible. I’m also grateful for all the wisdom you folks have here, so thank you so much for your time!