Hallo everybody,
I am a foreign shooter from germany, shooting a Savage 12 F/TR chambered in .308 for a couple of month now. I bought the gun when it was new, followed the break in instructions carefully and I am trying to get it shoot ever since. The best group at 100m I have ever got was 19mm center to center with federal ammo. But most of the time I get about 22mm or more. I have tried 2 sorts of ammo and several different hand loads.
Poweder was VV N140 and VV N150.
Bullets were PPU 150 and 168grs, Sierra MK 168grs, Lapua Scenar 167grs, Hornady HPBT Match 168grs but nothing gets better. For now I get the best results with PPU 168grs, but I also shoot them the most. All the others are pretty similar.
When I shoot a Howa 1500 in .308, I have less than 2cm outer edge to outer edge. I always shoot 5 shot groups.
Considering that the FTR is nearly twice as expensive as the howa where I come from, it should shoot at least as good as the howa.
For now I didn't try torque tuning, but I ordered a tool todo that. Has anyone any suggestions how to get that gun fixed?
thanks in advance
First things to check is whether the stock is touching the barrel anywhere in the barrel channel and check the rear tang to see if it's making contact with the stock. If it's in a factory plastic stock, you may want to consider glass bedding the action. Shooting the five shot groups, what is your wait time between shots?
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
Welcome!
The barrel isn't touching the stock. There is lots of space. It is a laminate stock. It looks exactly like this:Originally Posted by GaCop
https://www.arms24.com/savage-arms-1...epetierbuechse
I will check the rear tang, but it most likely touches the stock.
Time between shots is about 20-30 seconds. Between each group is about 3-5 min.
After 3 groups I shoot another weapon until the gun is cold. Befor I start shooting groups I sacrifice one round to get the barrel slightly warm.
I have talked to savage at our local hunting fair and they recomended exactly this article :) Next time on the range is 29.07. I will try it than. If possible I will try to sort out potential errors as much as possible. If you have any idea for further load development, I will try it. Are there special bullet weights the FTR likes? Or any special bullets? I heard the A-Max do a good job. Unfortunately they are expensive AF.
Also I think about trying: Norma .308 Win. Golden Target HPBT 10,0g/155grs. They are currently going for 36€ a box.
These are going for 76 for 50 rounds: Hornady .308 Win. Match BTHP 10,9g/168grs.
But currently I am a bit worried that my gun doesn't like 168grs bullets even though I got the best results with them for now. But I didn't try high quality 155grs bullets by now.
New Member
19, 22mm.. what’s that?? Like 7 INCHES? 2 FEET? What is this strange NOT AMERICAN measuring?? “The horror….. the horror” LOL!
Ok..seriously, you are UNDER 1 MOA there. Sub MOA for a stock Savage ain’t too shabby. Regardless of the MANY online claims, not many factory Savages are shooting inside 1/2MOA. Your Howa is shooting inside 1/2 MOA. Just because the Savage costs more, doesn’t mean it’s going to do 1/2 MOA groups.
Can you get Hornady bullets? Try some of their newer ballistic tip bullets. I’ll say also, VV powders are not typically top choices among shooters. If you are confident with your loading, bedding is your next step. The rear gang was mentioned, but why do the bare minimum? I would Bed the whole thing, with pillars if you can. Viel Glück mein Freud!
My 12BVVSS took a lot of rounds to break in. A lot of copper fouling. Also used Ioso bore paste on it. It still fouls quite a bit but I get about 100rounds before accuracy falls off. I clean and remove all copper fouling after each shooting session. Now it is mostly a cast bullet gun and has over 4000 rounds through it.
The gun did not like the heavier bullets. It is also very sensitive to powder charge.
I went to 155gn and did much better. Hornady 155ELD match and Berger 155 (Bergers were very sensitive to seating depth).
I do a ladder test with each bullet to find the best load. I started with Sierra's best accuracy load and went up and down in 0.1gn steps. That resulted in good groups for the Hornady bullets, about 13mm. The Bergers had to be slightly jammed into the grooves before they shot well, around 12mm. FWIW, a 0.5gn powder load change and the groups would go from 12mm to 30mm.
If you are only going to shoot at 100yd then try some of the flat base bullets. Less to go wrong. I shoot at 500-1000yd with mine.
PS some of us like the metric system :)
LOL! Are you “identifying” as European now Charlie?Do you have the sudden urge for Tea Time & to watch & call Soccer, Futball? Next you’ll be asking for a “Royale with Cheese” and a “Le Big Mac”!
22mm is about 1,367e-5 miles19, 22mm.. what’s that?? Like 7 INCHES? 2 FEET? What is this strange NOT AMERICAN measuring?? “The horror….. the horror” LOL!
You are probably right, but whats the point of building a gun that costs twice as much but shoot half as good? I am pretty sure, there is a trick to get that stick shooting :)Ok..seriously, you are UNDER 1 MOA there. Sub MOA for a stock Savage ain’t too shabby. Regardless of the MANY online claims, not many factory Savages are shooting inside 1/2MOA. Your Howa is shooting inside 1/2 MOA. Just because the Savage costs more, doesn’t mean it’s going to do 1/2 MOA groups.
I might get my hands on some ELD-M. There is currently not so much on the market. For the bedding I have to look how it's done now.Can you get Hornady bullets? Try some of their newer ballistic tip bullets. I’ll say also, VV powders are not typically top choices among shooters. If you are confident with your loading, bedding is your next step. The rear gang was mentioned, but why do the bare minimum? I would Bed the whole thing, with pillars if you can. Viel Glück mein Freud!
Than I have to clean. There are about 200 rounds shot since the last propper clean. Last time I cleaned it got a lot worse.It still fouls quite a bit but I get about 100rounds before accuracy falls off.
I can't get 155 ELD-M. And I can't get Berger at all - maybe there are some 220grs left, but thats it. I will have a look for 155grs bullets.I went to 155gn and did much better. Hornady 155ELD match and Berger 155 (Bergers were very sensitive to seating depth).
.308/155 Nosler Competition HPBT 45369
.308/155 Hornady HPBT 3039
.308/155 Sierra Match HPBT 2155
.308/155 Sierra Match TMK 7755
This is what is left in my local shop. But I might get other online.
I do 0.3gn. Might be to big steps. Next time I take my best node and do 0.1gn in both directions.I started with Sierra's best accuracy load and went up and down in 0.1gn steps.
This gun should become my 300yd gun. Maybe even up to 500yd. But I would like to get it shooting at 100yd before I start shooting at 300.If you are only going to shoot at 100yd then try some of the flat base bullets. Less to go wrong. I shoot at 500-1000yd with mine.
Sounds pretty good to me :DDo you have the sudden urge for Tea Time & to watch & call Soccer, Futball? Next you’ll be asking for a “Royale with Cheese” and a “Le Big Mac”!
LOL, nope, just an engineer who worked on high energy laser systems. :)
Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk
Yeah… I knew that. You know I’m joking. I actually use both. I’m sure you do as well.Best not to adhere to only one. I think everyone should train themselves to know the different measurements on the fly. Metric to SAE & MOA to Mills. I mean, I was victim to ACTUAL brain damage & was a retard for several weeks. If I can “Rain Man” my way through it there’s no excuse.
Are you going through all the load development steps ?
Bearking,
I have two Savage .308s, both with 24-inch (61 cm) barrels.
You'd think they would perform about the same, but they don't.
One rifle shoots most accurately with 155 gr Sierra TMKs and the other rifle shoots most accurately with 175 gr Sierra SMKs and TMKs and 195 Sierra TMKs.
Neither shoots all that well with bullets at the opposite end of the weight spectrum.
That said, for the top 25 loads for each rifle, the 5-round group averages differ by 0.5 mm.
With the weights they prefer, their average 5-round group sizes at 100 yards are under 10 mm (closer to just under 9 mm with powder loads and jumps the rifles prefer). At the opposite end of the weight spectrum those group sizes grow to over 12 mm.
You really have to let your rifle tell you what weights it shoots best.
Bearking...22mm is .866”. 2cm is .787”. The difference is .079” or 2mm. That small amount could simply be the difference between 2 different barrels. And we will not get much sympathy from Savage for a rifle that shoots les than MOA. As far as cost of Your rifle, at this point in time everything has escalated in cost. Exchange rates and many other factors come into it. We “should” get what we pay for, but it often doesn’t happen. But shooting factory ammo shows that Your rifle is good enough to work with. With well tuned hand loads, it will likely show significant improvement. As it is, if You entered an FT/R 1,000yd match, and held that .866MOA aggregate close to the x, You would have 8.66 inch groups, and likely win the match. I suggest either shoot the Factory Ammo Your rifle likes best, or hand load, which is the real best option. Work with Your rifle, find out if it likes to be shot clean or fouled. Please let us know Your results.
The best I have ever seen a Savage F/TR in 308 shoot was with VV powder and 185 Berger Jug's barely off the lands. It was torque tuned .I believe the primers were CCI BR2 or CCI small magnum... and brass was Lapua palma . You will probably need the chamber throated to get the bullet out enough for the powder you need, but try it first.
IMR 4064 and Varget will shoot good with 175's. R15 did really good on a spring morning.
Guys are also doing well with the 155.5 fullbore Bergers. Don't know anything about that load except your shoulder is happier after 22 shots in 20 min.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
^^This^^ is excellent advice, I M O.
Just my $.02 worth. I have found that Savages like a dirty barrel. My first factory 6.5 CM took about 170 rounds before it started to group well at 600 yds.
I then kept shooting it untill I have about 300 round down and noticed my groups were opening up. Cleaned the snot out of it (copper and carbon) went back to the range and noticed that it took 23 rounds before my groups came back down.
Going on 341 rounds since cleaning it and still shooting good.
Like above responses you gotta find what the gun likes. You will know it when you see it on the targets.
Good luck
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks