Reply With QuoteYeah I would agree that pin fall is more important then protrusion, i thought it was an interesting topic and maybe I just got lucky. IDK.. I have since moved on to a Bat B dual port action.Originally Posted by Robinhood
I don't think too long of protrusion will hurt accuracy. There is no reason to intentionally set it that long however. All it does is shorten the firing pin travel. Setting it shorter optimizes things. However in general you are correct. It is not something to worry about if it is shooting well and not causing an issue.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Yeah I would agree that pin fall is more important then protrusion, i thought it was an interesting topic and maybe I just got lucky. IDK.. I have since moved on to a Bat B dual port action.
Can’t do much better than the Bat B. What trigger did You go with, and what setting ?
We never said or even alluded to it doing anything for accuracy, just as. Both Robin & I gave many reasons why it’s good. I specifically touched on exactly what you said. If your rifle delivers excellent accuracy with long protrusion, of course shortening is not needed. And bushing the bolt is typically a fix for a problem. Or, in my case, in machining my own Firing Pin, I fit the pin perfectly to the PTG Bolt Head from the start.
I went to a 1200 yard range this morning to test my skills, rifle accuracy and loads at really long range. The range had two short bays for shooting at 30 and 100 yards and a long distance range with berms at 200, 275, 400, 500, 600, 700, 750, 850, and 950 yards. There were also two berms at 1050 and 1200 yards, but they were closed until after deer season. The shooting position was at the highest point on the property and all the berms were lower so you were shooting slightly down hill, more so for the closer targets. It was a pretty empty and exposed position so it was nice that there was very little wind to affect your shot. I had no problems hitting steel out to 750 yards, but had a hard time hearing any hits on the 850 yard target. I hit the 950 yard target repeatedly so I don't think I was missing at 850 yards. There was only one other shooter and he said he couldn't hear any hits on the 850 yard target either. The ground was saturated so it was impossible to spot your misses. It looked like the 850 yard target was fastened to a post instead of hanging and that may have affected the sound a hit would make. I was wearing ear plugs and ear muffs so I didn't hear hits really well at that distance. I was pretty happy with my shooting, the loads and the range itself.
Congratulations. With ear plugs in I have a hard time hearing steel at 600yd. Why I like the swinging targets. :)
Funny how we get used to being able to see the misses where the dirt is kicked up. We had one of those rare days with rain and I had a heck of a time getting the wind dialed in simply because I could not see where the bullets went.
Thanks, it was a lot of fun and the layout made it easy to shoot From 200 to 1200 (when available) yards. I’ve been thinking about trying electronic ear plugs, but the noise reduction of 23 db is far less than my combo of plugs and muffs. I already have compromised hearing thanks to 25 years on the flight line. I wish I could convince the wife to spot for me!
ROFLMAO
I like solitude when I shoot. An empty range all to myself. One reason I try to get to the range at sunrise on weekdays. But, the drawback is no spotter. Which is why I mainly shoot long range with soda cans, 5" gong, or milk jugs, depending on range.
Hearing is one of those things you don't appreciate until you lose it. Mine was at a tank range. I was taking some ammo to the dud pit when the range went green. I was near the front fender of the tank. The .50cal up top is such that I was in front of it so I caught the full muzzle blast for 5 rounds. That was all it took.
I "hear" ya! Mine was sitting with a PRC 25 next to a 155 artillery battery more than a few nights.Hearing is one of those things you don't appreciate until you lose it. Mine was at at tank range.
Can you still hear static? :) We were always just far enough away that the squelch would cut out the signal.
That brings back memories. Dad was in air defense artillery (WWI and later, 120 and 90mm canons). He was deaf in his left ear. Why only one? He could stick his finger in one ear but as a safety officer he had to be able to hear commands for the firing battery.
Sorry for the off topic
My dad was a WWII and Korean war vet and he was just about deaf when he passed.
I'm done with the StaBall 6.5 experiment and on to working up loads for H4350. I just hope when I'm done I can find one of the three reliably so I don't have to go to another powder.
Superformance worked for me with 140gr bullets.
Great to hear as its another one I'm going to try.
Hey Dave’
glad I could smoke you out of your man cave long enough to say happy holidays .
Smoke me out of my man cave??Hey Dave’
glad I could smoke you out of your man cave long enough to say happy holidays .I’m sorry, I don’t follow..
I don’t say happy holidays. I say Happy Thanksgiving & Merry Christmas though.
Finally tried H4831SC with my Savage 12 FV 6.5mm CM that has shot H4350 the best over 287 groups out of a grand total of 578 groups
With H 4350, the 147 ELD-Ms averaged 0.307 for 51 groups and the 140 ELD-Ms averaged 0.317 for 57 groups.
With H4831SC, the 147 ELD-Ms averaged 0.310 for 6 groups and the 140 ELD-Ms averaged 0.344 for 8 groups.
Not a big sample with the new powder, but it looks encouraging.
That's interesting, I don't think I've seen that powder associated with 6.5 CM. Do you know what kind of velocity you are getting? The Hogdon website says 2432 to 2695, which is pretty slow in my admittedly short experience. My gun runs 150-200 FPS lower than the loads shown in the Hornady manual because they use a much longer barreled gun than my 22" Savage.
Both Hodgdon and Sierra list H4831 load data for heavy bullets in 6.5CM
Sierra Data lists 45.6gr H4831 as MAX load with 142gr HPBT 2700fps
24" Barrel 1-18 Twist
Hornady Brass
Winchester WLR
COAL=2.810"
Most recent results using a 12 FV 6.5 CM 26-in barrel in an Oryx chassis using a Sinclair Gen 3 F-class bipod and Protektor rear rest from a bench at 100 yards in Northern VA at 250 ft above sea level, temps from 38 to 43 degrees F. in less than 5 mph winds (all with CCI BR-4 primers and Lapua brass):
With ELD-M 140 gr bullets:
H4831SC - 44.6 grs at seating depth 2.878 and trim length 1.908, I got 2707 fps. (8 5-rnd groups - average 0.344)
H4350 - 41.5 grs at seating depth 2.880 and trim length 1.910, I got 2690 fps. (8 5-rnd groups - average 0.337)
With ELD-M 147 gr bullets:
H4831SC 44.4 grs at seating depth 2.898 and trim length 1.907, I got 2685 fps. (6 5-rnd groups - average 0.310)
H4350 41.4 grs at seating depth 2.899 and trim length 1.908, I got 2666 fps. (7 5-rnd groups - average 0.347)
H4831SC is a slower powder than H4350.
Takes more powder but gives a very slight increase in velocity.
Seems to favor heavier bullets based on performance with the 147 gr ELD-Ms, although it will take a lot more groups to confirm that.
So far, I have shot 287 groups at 100 yds with H4350 powder and a variety of 130 to 147 gr bullets to an overall average of 0.324.
The 14 groups with H4831SC powder with 140 and 147 gr bullets averaged 0.329.
I'm going to have to try H4831 after I'm done experimenting with H4350
Today was idiots day at the range, luckily the only person with the idiot, err me, was a good friend.
It started off with me not being able to hit anything at 200 yards. After 5 shots I gave up and headed over to the 100 yard range to check zero. The problem was, I only had one small target and I couldn't hit it from 100 yards. The backer boards were so full of holes, I couldn't tell where I was hitting. I had no clue what was wrong since I had no trouble out to 950 yards the last time I shot and I had done nothing but clean the gun. I gave up and went back to the long range to break the news that I was done.
My buddy talked me into trying to figure out what was wrong so we picked a spot on a berm 200 yards away, and used it as a target. I fired and didn't see any impact, but luckily my buddy saw the bullet make impact waaaaay over the berm. He was looking through his scope and said I was about 20 MOA high. That's when it hit me!. One full revolution of the turret on my scope is 20 MOA. The last time I shot was at the 950 yard target which required over 26 MOA of elevation. When I was done, I returned the turret to zero, but I needed one additional revolution to bring it to the true zero. My scope has a zero stop, but I didn't make sure I hit it. First lesson learned.
If that wasn't enough, I had another faux pas later which made my head hurt. My shooting partner had his own ballistics calculator, but he had a variety of ammo and was having to enter data for each one individually. One of the boxes was Hornady Match and since I use the Hornady calculator, I told him I'd enter that one in my calculator since I could select that exact bullet and wouldn't have to enter the ballistic data for it. That worked fine and he was able to hit steel at 950 yards. Somewhere in there, I started shooting and was having a little trouble with the holdovers. I was able to hit out to 850 yards, but my numbers weren't matching and I was having to walk the shots in. Then it hit me, (I was sloooow today) I was not using the data for my rifle. Once I got that sorted out everything worked well.
I shot 46 rounds over four hours and had a great time. Working with a spotter made making corrections a breeze, even in the semi-muddy conditions. Last time I was out there was much more difficult. I also learned that having two people shooting can complicate things if you aren't on top of your game.
I feel for ya. I did the same thing this week. Not turning the turret another revolution. The worst part is I had done the same thing just last week!! Maybe I'll learn my lesson the next time :)
I think I will mark the scope somehow. I've done that kind of thing with other adjustable things and it works quite well.
PS one of the reasons I like shooting at longer ranges is I can be my own spotter. The rifle 'settles' before the bullet gets to the target.
Nice picture! Looks like a heck of a place to shoot. Trying to figure out the location…. Is that by any chance a Mesquite tree over-head to the left?
Yes, having a spotter is quite nice. Precisely why Snipers don’t work alone, but in pairs. Of course though.. both need to be speaking English! If one is speaking Swahili, Fagettaboutit!
Man I’d love to join ya out there. I’d spot anytime!
I’m glad I’m not the only one!
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