Reloading 6.5 Creedmoor

[Ernest T]

Nice picture! Looks like a heck of a place to shoot. Trying to figure out the location…. Is that by any chance a Mesquite tree over-head to the left?

Yes, having a spotter is quite nice. Precisely why Snipers don’t work alone, but in pairs. Of course though.. both need to be speaking English! If one is speaking Swahili, Fagettaboutit!

Man I’d love to join ya out there. I’d spot anytime!

it’s in central Texas. Don’t remember what kind of tree it was, but there are lots of mesquite trees around. It’s a nice range, on 300 acres, sometimes you have to run the cows off! Come on down!

[GrenGuy]

Is that a community behind the targets ?

[Ernest T]

Is that a community behind the targets ?

There’s a golf course and rural homes about 3 mi out. The first property at the end is about 500 acres of pasture. There are several parcels that size, then the golf course and then homes.

[wbm]

Is that by any chance a Mesquite tree over-head to the left?

No.

There’s a golf course and rural homes about 3 mi out.

So. Theoretically one could shoot golf balls at 3 miles?

Beautiful place to shoot Ernest T.

[Ernest T]

No.



So. Theoretically one could shoot golf balls at 3 miles?

Beautiful place to shoot Ernest T.

Thanks. This is an over-head of the immediate surroundings. We've been shooting from the red circle to the yellow circle. The 1000 and 1200 yard berms are to the left of the yellow circle. Civilization is quite a bit farther north.

[Dave Hoback]

it’s in central Texas. Don’t remember what kind of tree it was, but there are lots of mesquite trees around. It’s a nice range, on 300 acres, sometimes you have to run the cows off! Come on down!

Ha! I was pretty well certain that was somewhere ‘round by beloved South West! Texas, huh? Very cool. I do miss my my time spent in Arizona. To me, it was like my back yard was my shooting range. 1000yds? No sweat. 1200, 1400… can do. A Mile or so? Sure, why not! Just a truly magical place. I’m in SE Pennsylvania now, born & raised in this area. So, not much in the way of quality distance shooting. Several 1000yd ranges, sure.. unfortunately, need be a member with expensive dues & the closest to me is still just shy of 3 hours! So… yeah.. No open land for shooting here.

[charlie b]

One of the reasons I like living where i do. Grew up in Phoenix. Neighbors were part of the group that founded the Ben Avery range (the Olympics were conducted there one year). We used to shoot at a range that is now covered in houses :) (Thunderbird Park). Now Ben Avery is surrounded on 3 sides by houses and businesses (they have a good size hill as a backstop),

When someone says West Texas, to me, that means Midland, Odessa, Van Horn. No trees, some bushes and a lot of oil rigs :) Kinda like southern NM without any mountains. :)

[wbm]

Like "Out in the West Texas town of El Paso."

My old shooting partner used to shoot all winter at Ben Avery.

[Dave Hoback]

One of the reasons I like living where i do. Grew up in Phoenix. Neighbors were part of the group that founded the Ben Avery range (the Olympics were conducted there one year). We used to shoot at a range that is now covered in houses :) (Thunderbird Park). Now Ben Avery is surrounded on 3 sides by houses and businesses (they have a good size hill as a backstop),

When someone says West Texas, to me, that means Midland, Odessa, Van Horn. No trees, some bushes and a lot of oil rigs :) Kinda like southern NM without any mountains. :)

Yeah, I know what you mean Charlie. I lived there and remember when Ben Avery pretty much had nothing around it. I visited last year, unfortunately for a funeral & just the growth I noticed between Phoenix & Tucson was scary. It’s all the Californians running from their HORRIBLE overpriced way of life (because of their party of choice), but the move to where good Conservatives live & bring their Left voting with them…. I don’t it! FACTS staring people in the face!

But I agree about New Mexico. Ya know… I’ve traveled & visited places throughout a large expanse of our Nation. And quite honestly New Mexico was the most fascinatingly Desolate of the States I traveled. It was the only place while driving that gave me that “if we run out of gas, we are going to die out here!” feeling. LOL! I mean, it’s funny.. but that sincerely was the feeling I got the first time I drove through NN. Not in a bad way either.. no sir! Like I said, it was fascinatingly desolate. I so wish to go back & explore it more.

[charlie b]

There are definitely parts of many states here in the west that are like that. Eastern Arizona, most of west Texas, eastern Colorado, Utah outside of Salt Lake City area, most of New Mexico, Wyoming, Nevada and Montana. I don't really look at the areas out here in terms of which state, but, which mountain range, river valley or other geologic features. Great Basin. Kaibab plateau. Rocky Mountains (from Canada to NM). Permian Basin. etc, etc, etc.

[wbm]

Like I said, it was fascinatingly desolate.

It is that. Especially the Llano and Gila Wilderness.

[Ernest T]

There are definitely parts of many states here in the west that are like that. Eastern Arizona, most of west Texas, eastern Colorado, Utah outside of Salt Lake City area, most of New Mexico, Wyoming, Nevada and Montana. I don't really look at the areas out here in terms of which state, but, which mountain range, river valley or other geologic features. Great Basin. Kaibab plateau. Rocky Mountains (from Canada to NM). Permian Basin. etc, etc, etc.

The Sonoran desert is beautiful, while the Chihuahuan Desert looks like so much flat scrub in many places. As you head west from Central Texas, you can see the plants change. We have quite a diversity of plant life here in the middle of Texas, with enough rain that we have wide variety of fairly large growing trees. Go just 50 miles west and things begin to change. You lose all the trees that aren't some type of oak except in the creek beds. Then, pretty soon they peter out to be replaced with large bushes, and soon after, even they are gone. By the time you get to Ft. Stockton, most of what you see is creosote bush with a few different types of cactus mixed in. Soon after, even the cactus can't survive on the scant rainfall.

[Ernest T]

What You are seeing is different neck wall thickness, and perhaps inconsistent spring back, on no turn necks. The solution to what You want at this point in Your shooting experience is the LEE Collet die. Fire Your cases, full length size them just enough to easily fit in Your chamber, without the expander mandrel installed in the Die. Neck size with the collet die. This will align the center of the neck with the center of the case, and size the inside of the neck with about .003” neck tension. Since You have a no turn stock chamber, who cares what the outside of the neck is. After that, if You want less neck tension, then go to the mandrels mentioned previously.

Do this, and it will solve what worries You so at this point in time. But, then there will be the next thing.

The only way I would use a Bushing Die, is if I were turning necks, making the neck wall thickness consistent, and concentric. I don’t want to push the inconsistencies to the inside, causing bullet run out. And, before I turn necks on My 6mmBRA, I run them through the LEE Collet die to center up the necks and push the bad stuff to the outside, where it is turned off.

I'm finally getting around to trying this out. I've sized 20 cases this way and will do more as I shoot the cartridges I've loaded and get more empty brass. I'm really interested to see if this eliminates the inconsistent force I feel when seating bullets.

One thing I am going to do is buy a full length sizing die with a micrometer adjustment. The Lee die does a good job, or at least I think it does, but I have a difficult time adjusting the shoulder bump since its adjusted by screwing it in and out of the press.

[Ernest T]

Anyone know why tumbling brass with stainless steel pins removes the discoloration imparted by annealing?

[Ernest T]

On another note, I've fired my Lapua brass for the third time now and I notice the length after firing is more consistent than it has been. The last 50 or so cases I measured were almost all + or - .001.

[wbm]

Anyone know why tumbling brass with stainless steel pins removes the discoloration imparted by annealing?

Friction.

[charlie b]

The annealing color is simply oxidation. Any kind of abrasive tumbling will remove it.

[Ernest T]

Friction.

The annealing color is simply oxidation. Any kind of abrasive tumbling will remove it.

Got it. I thought the color was actually in the brass, not just the surface.

[South Prairie jim]

I'm finally getting around to trying this out. I've sized 20 cases this way and will do more as I shoot the cartridges I've loaded and get more empty brass. I'm really interested to see if this eliminates the inconsistent force I feel when seating bullets.

One thing I am going to do is buy a full length sizing die with a micrometer adjustment. The Lee die does a good job, or at least I think it does, but I have a difficult time adjusting the shoulder bump since its adjusted by screwing it in and out of the press.

Full length dies typically won’t have a micro adjust top we just use the threads but a seater die with a micro top is quite common and useful. I have shot several no turn 6 bra and rarely use a mandrel or needed one to straighten out a neck beyond virgin brass as the bullet itself acts as a mandrel. I do not use real light neck tension not do I anneal or require any tumbling or ss pins banging and pinging the case mouths. The worst shooting br I’ve ever shot was using light neck tension.

[charlie b]

For more precision on the Lee die just replace the retaining ring with an RCBS or Lyman. I do that with my seating dies as well to make sure they don't move. Lee also makes screw locking rings for their dies now but they still have that Oring.

[Ernest T]

It's been a month since I got to the range! I went yesterday to do a couple things; 1. try out loads of H4350 since I now can't find Winchester Staball 6.5 in 8 lb cannisters and 2., try out loads using brass I sized with the full length sizing die, without the neck sizing mandrel, followed up by a neck sizing die to see if I could get more consistent velocities.

With the H4350, I started at the bottom and worked my way up towards the max load. I was kind of surprised by the velocities I was achieving given that the loads in the book were developed using a 26" barrel and the barrel on my Savage is 22". It was a mildly windy day with the breeze blowing 90 degrees from the left. I had 1.5 MOA left cranked into the windage. I was also shooting off of a bipod instead of a bag which I think adversely affects my group size. I've since removed the bipod and won't reinstall it any time soon.

This is obviously no bueno, the number is parenthesis is the expected velocity from the Hornady manual.


Getting better, but still slow.


Even better, but still slow.


Now, we're getting somewhere.


Going the wrong way, but I still have one more load to shoot. This one is between the previous and highest load so there's no expected velocity.


Better. This one is also between the previous and highest load so there's no expected velocity, but I believe what I'm looking for is somewhere close. I'll try another set starting with 40 grains and incrementing by .2 grain to the max load to see how things look.

[Ernest T]

I'm finally getting around to trying this out. I've sized 20 cases this way and will do more as I shoot the cartridges I've loaded and get more empty brass. I'm really interested to see if this eliminates the inconsistent force I feel when seating bullets.

One thing I am going to do is buy a full length sizing die with a micrometer adjustment. The Lee die does a good job, or at least I think it does, but I have a difficult time adjusting the shoulder bump since its adjusted by screwing it in and out of the press.

I don't know if I learned anything from this exercise. Here are the results and they actually look a little worse than what I've been achieving with the full length sizing die with neck sizing mandrel. I shot 20 rounds sized with the Lee full length sizing die, sans mandrel, and Lee neck sizing die. Here they are divided in groups. One shot didn't register. The groups, with Winchester Staball 6.5, were also consistently larger than I have been shooting with this load. To be sure, I wasn't super happy with the accuracy I could achieve with the Staball compared to RL-16.

[Robinhood]

I am sorry I have not been following your thread. It is cool watching the process take place now that I skimmed over some of it. Something I want to respond to and something I don't think I saw addressed. First: the depth of your bolt head from face to counter bore is supposed to be like .115" I have never seen them lower and have only seen them .001' or .002" deeper. They are held in a tight tolerance has been my experience. .005" deeper and the bolt head is either close to, or rubbing the muzzle when you open or close the bolt. The other thing is, i saw where there were a lot of suggestions on getting even/consistent neck tension. The only way I have seen that happen is if the brass is restored to an annealed state. There is only one way to do that. Heat. There are ways to slow down work hardening as in reducing the frequency necessary for all case necks to remain softer for longer. But once you feel seating become more difficult or inconsistent, annealing is the correct medicine. Keep posting to you get bug holes. Lapua Brass/140 class/41-42.4 h4350/ FGMM primers/ and of coarse getting your seating depth right.

[Ernest T]

I am sorry I have not been following your thread. It is cool watching the process take place now that I skimmed over some of it. Something I want to respond to and something I don't think I saw addressed. First: the depth of your bolt head from face to counter bore is supposed to be like .115" I have never seen them lower and have only seen them .001' or .002" deeper. They are held in a tight tolerance has been my experience. .005" deeper and the bolt head is either close to, or rubbing the muzzle when you open or close the bolt. The other thing is, i saw where there were a lot of suggestions on getting even/consistent neck tension. The only way I have seen that happen is if the brass is restored to an annealed state. There is only one way to do that. Heat. There are ways to slow down work hardening as in reducing the frequency necessary for all case necks to remain softer for longer. But once you feel seating become more difficult or inconsistent, annealing is the correct medicine. Keep posting to you get bug holes. Lapua Brass/140 class/41-42.4 h4350/ FGMM primers/ and of coarse getting your seating depth right.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here in the red.

I've been annealing the brass every time I reload.

Even when I try something and it doesn't change anything or makes it worse, I learn something. Sometimes it takes me a little while to work up to it.

[Dave Hoback]

Ernest, Robin is referring essentially to the amount the case protrudes from the barrel when fully Chambered. If you’ve ever seen just a barrel with an empty case inserted, you’ll notice it does not sit flush with the barrel. Obviously it can’t as the the bolt face is recessed.