Reply With QuoteI'm going try IMR 4350 with the 140 grain Berger VLD's this week to see how they do with that powder.
Me too!Originally Posted by South Prairie jim
I like this one
I'm going try IMR 4350 with the 140 grain Berger VLD's this week to see how they do with that powder.
I've been so busy with other stuff I haven't made it to the range in awhile, this weekend I got some time to reload so I'm working on three different things at once.
I'm narrowing down a powder charge for H4350 and the Nosler 140 gr. RDF bullets. I loaded 5 each at 41.4, 41.6, 41.8 and 42 gr. at 2.298 CBTO which is at the lands. This is a follow-up to a load I was working on a few weeks ago using 3 shot groups. All these shot sub MOA and the 41.4 was sub 1/2 MOA. I was having problems with the chronograph at 41.8 and 42 so I am hoping to get the data I missed the other day.
I'm also working on RL-16 and 140 gr. Barnes Match Burner bullets. I have identified a good load, 42.0 gr. and had pretty good results at 2.180 CBTO -- that will fit in my magazine. I loaded 5 rounds each at 2.182, 2.180 and 2.178 to see what would happen.
Finally, I wasn't happy with the Win 760 and Berger VLD Target bullets so I'm trying IMR 4350. The Berger Manual doesn't have loads for this powder, but the Hornady book has loads for it using 140 Gr. ELD-M bullets so I'm using that data. I'm starting at mid-range and working my way up to max .002 gr. at a time.
“.002 grains at a time” ? Whow! That’s about a tenth of a kernel of IMR 4350 !
yeah, that's a typo, I meant .2 grains!“.002 grains at a time” ? Whow! That’s about a tenth of a kernel of IMR 4350 !
It was supposed to drizzle and sprinkle today and the wind was blowing like crazy, but I went to the range anyway because the forecast isn't much better for tomorrow or Monday. I don't like to go on Saturday or Sunday because of the crowds.
The first rounds I shot were with H4350 and 140 grain Nosler RDF. The Nosler data is pretty conservative with a max of 41 Gr of H4350 pushing the 140 grain bullet at 2694 FPS out of a 24" barrel. Hornady says the max load for H4350 for a 140 gr ELD-M is 42 gr so I felt pretty safe working up from 41 to 42 gr of H 4350 with the Nosler. This is what I got. I moved the scope up 1 MOA after the first group. None of the cases or primers showed signs of overpressure and the 42 gr. shot the best group although they all looked pretty good for me. The velocity at 42 gr. was 2727 FPS out of my 22" barrel.
Then I moved on to RL-16 and 140 gr. Barnes Match Burners. I also shot this last time and liked 42 gr. of RL-16 with a length of 2.180 CBTO. I was looking to see if moving the CBTO up or down looked like it would make a difference and it didn't.
Then I shot 140 gr. Berger VLDs with IMR 4350. The Berger manual said they got the best accuracy with the VLDs with IMR 4350. I loaded all of them at the lands, 2.284 CBTO and they all shot about the same. I was going to shoot the fouler rounds into the bottom of the paper, but the scope was adjusted up an MOA, that's why they were so far apart.
About three months ago I started using CCI 450 magnum SRPs and the ES and SDs of my rounds decreased sharply. I didn't see a corresponding increase in accuracy, at least I didn't think I did, but I did notice I started getting misfires. At first it was one every 100 rounds or so, but lately it has been increasing. This was a batch of 140 gr. ELD-M rounds I loaded just after Christmas. I finished them off today and 5 out of 38 failed to fire.
The primers don't look any different than they did before.
It got worse as I started shooting rounds I made in the last week, until I'd estimate 25% failed to fire. I came home and took the rounds apart and tried to figure out what was going on. I measured the primer pockets and 95% were within the .121-123 spec. A few were at .123.5 or .124 and one was .120. Nothing that should have caused an issue. I took the unfired primers and wacked them with a hammer and I had to flatten them to make them fire. If I didn't hit it with conviction, it wouldn't fire. Great I think I've found the problem. I reloaded the founds, half with SRPs and half with Magnum SRPs to see if there was a difference in performance between the two.
One last thing I did, and the reason for this post, is I took the firing pin out of the bolt to see if it had gunk keeping it from striking the primer with enough authority to fire it. That's when I noticed this bolt that holds the handle on the rear of the bolt/firing pin was not tight. As in I took it of by hand. I'm thinking that is my real problem?
I took the firing pin out and cleaned it, but it really wasn't that dirty. I put it back together without lube, but it seems like I should have at least oiled it? I question that because I have two Springfield Arms handguns that have a similar firing pin arrangement and lubing it will cause the gun to malfunction in short order. While I had the firing pin out of the bolt, I chucked it into my drill press and sanded that round point to be a little blunter with 2000 grit sand paper. I didn't take much off because I wanted to creep up on it and not mess it up by taking too much off.
One last thing, Does the tail on that spring hold the round-head pin in the bolt? It came apart before I got a good look at it. I put it back that way because it seemed like the only way it'd work, but I want to confirm that.
I would assume it does. I wonder if clipping off that piece will allow the firing pin to fall with less resistance?
I do lube firing pins, but, only with dry graphite.
I would NOT clip anything from that spring that holds the cocking pin in place. If you're having a hard time pulling it or putting it back together, you can straighten it a little, but don't remove any material. I also see that you have a bolt lift kit installed, but I have a question....Where is your spacer for the BAS nut/bolt? I've had a few installed on my guns and they all had spacers that were needed.
Edit:
Sorry, the spacer I was asking about is shown in this video. Skip to just after the 2:00 mark to see your firing pin config.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7MqSUW-5U
it went back together and seems to work fine. It didn’t have that big washer. I don’t think there’s enough room for one and the knob on my gun is different that that shown in the video.I would NOT clip anything from that spring that holds the cocking pin in place. If you're having a hard time pulling it or putting it back together, you can straighten it a little, but don't remove any material. I also see that you have a bolt lift kit installed, but I have a question....Where is your spacer for the BAS nut/bolt? I've had a few installed on my guns and they all had spacers that were needed.
Edit:
Sorry, the spacer I was asking about is shown in this video. Skip to just after the 2:00 mark to see your firing pin config.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o7MqSUW-5U
Here’s a video of my bolt.
Here’s another video where he actually removed the handle.
Without that spacer, firing pin spring pressure is increased, and bolt lift is increased.
edit: Okay, I guess maybe You shortened the spring to allow for the increased width of the lift kit?
I don’t know how much affect shortening the spring has on the Axis firing pin fall?
More expert advice will be beneficial.
In the first video, Desh installs the kit without a spacer. He said you have to cut the spring, which I assume he did when he installed the kit. Compare the length of my pigtail spring with the length of the spring in the first video before he cut it.
At the 2:50 mark of the second video, he talks about there being two kits, one with spacer, one without. I didn’t install mine, Desh did.
It’s hard to tell for sure from these pictures, but it looks like Your primers are bleeding back into the bolt face firing pin hole? Bolt bushing can solve this and other ignition problems. But I don’t know if anyone is doing it on an Axis? With SRP’s, the .070” Firing, the even larger hole, seems to contribute to no ignition. Since I have had the bolts Bushed on My 10’s, I have not had a single CCI 450 FTF. AND I “popped “ 250 of them this past week end.
Ok, I was more curious than anything. All of the ones I've had did not work well without the spacer.
I already had the bolt bushed and the rifle has reliably fired my handloads until recently. Firing pin protrusion is at the max end of the tolerance and the profile is a little pointy, but its been working fine...until now. I can't help but think the loose bolt that holds the handle on to the rifle bolt is the issue. When its loose, there has to be less pressure on the firing pin springs. I can't get out to see if tightening it fixed the problem until tomorrow. The wild card is I started using the CCI 450s about the time this started. I'm hoping that's just a coincidence.
Apparently Savage throws whatever they have at the time into their rifles so there is no hard and fast rule that if your rifle was built after this date, it has this firing pin. That complicates things for the aftermarket and there are several different lift kits available. Things look like they are standardized until they aren't!
I went to the range this morning with 20 rounds of ammo having mixed SRP and Magnum SRP primers. I marked them, but didn't separate them so I wouldn't know what they were when I shot them. All 20 fired and I had pretty good groups even though the wind was blowing over 20, and gusting to 30 mph. It was so bad, it blew my full 20 oz coffee over. I think my misfire issue was the loose firing pin bolt.
This is the 20 rounds I shot on Friday. I started off pretty shaky as the wind was blowing me all over the place. Normally I sit on a small stool with my legs crossed at the ankle, but I couldn't do that today. Once I spread my feet apart I was able to brace myself against the wind and things improved. I had one flyer in each of the next 3 groups, but the 3rd and 4th groups were the killer. The flyer was the last shot in both groups so I know this is all on me. I'm have 450 of these RDFs left and 9 lbs of H4350 so I'm going to shoot these for awhile.
In response to the cratering of the primers, the firing pin radius can and will manifest into cratering and is more often than not, the issue. Oversized pin hole issues are rare. If asked, I am betting desh would tell you that when doing a bushing job, he also profiles the pin tip.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Desh bushed my bolt and everyone says my firing pin is too long and too pointy. Its slightly flatter now but not much shorter. I'll sand a little more and see what happens. I forgot to look at the primers after shooting and have already resized the cases so I'll have to check them next time to see if they have changed any.
Creedmoor load
Fine shooting sir, please forgive my trolling…something is not quite right (imo) and I mean no disrespect by saying that it’s just that we know as shooters that no single point of wind pushes a round low left from a right hand twist barrel. A quartering 7:00 should be pushing towards low right. Also you may be a tad hot with your powder charge and perhaps nearing a scatter mode. If your on the edge of a node temp changes can play a factor as well, so those 20% flyers may actually be evidence.This is the 20 rounds I shot on Friday. I started off pretty shaky as the wind was blowing me all over the place. Normally I sit on a small stool with my legs crossed at the ankle, but I couldn't do that today. Once I spread my feet apart I was able to brace myself against the wind and things improved. I had one flyer in each of the next 3 groups, but the 3rd and 4th groups were the killer. The flyer was the last shot in both groups so I know this is all on me. I'm have 450 of these RDFs left and 9 lbs of H4350 so I'm going to shoot these for awhile.
respectfully
spj
Thanks, I'll take all the feedback I can get. The scope wasn't zeroed for these rounds, so they all shot low and left. I don't think the wind had much impact on where they landed except it was blowing me around a little. I had been shooting Hornady 140 gr ELD-Ms with RL-16 and the scope was zeroed for that load. When I switched to the Nosler RDFs I noticed they all shot 1-2 MOA low/left compared to the Hornady bullets. I went back to the range and zeroed the scope for this load yesterday because I'm gong to be shooting it for at least the next 400 rounds. There's no doubt that this is a hot load and you may be right about being on the ragged edge of accuracy. It just shot so well I'm reluctant to mess with it. I shot this 4" gong four out of four times from 500 yards.
Don't touch the sides. Anything more that .020" to .025" from the tip is getting into crater teritory.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
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