Reducing bolt lift effort

[Aircraftmech76]

How exactly does one reduce the bolt lift effort aside from a longer bolt handle. I've polished the rear baffle ramp and the bolt handle cam, as well as the bolt lugs. I just don't know if I've missed anything. I've been on Fred's waiting list to have my two actions trued and timed for over four years. I just don't get it.

Kevin

[Quickshot]

Air76-- You just kicked a hornets nest. Sit back and be prepared for lots of info. I tried one of the fixes but it ended up a huge waste of time and effort. Good luck! Quick

[Aircraftmech76]

Roger that...bee suit on.

[sha-ul]

I've had some of those days.

[shovelheadave]

Thanks for the morning laugh boys...

[Dirk]

How exactly does one reduce the bolt lift effort aside from a longer bolt handle. I've polished the rear baffle ramp and the bolt handle cam, as well as the bolt lugs. I just don't know if I've missed anything. I've been on Fred's waiting list to have my two actions trued and timed for over four years. I just don't get it.

Kevin

Four years? Don't you think he forgot about you? You must be a VERY patient guy.

[pdog06]

patient!!! I'd say thats an understatement!....LOL

I made my appointment around May to have it done at the beginning of September(supposedly one of the first ones after they return from the Jamboree). I havent been called yet, and if youre ahead of me on the list I doubt Ill even own the gun anymore by the time it's time to be T&T'd...LOL I know they're busy so I have just forgotten about it, but if it was something I was really, really needing done I'd be pretty upset.

As far as a sooner solution to a lighter boltlift, you can always order a bolt lift kit from Stockade Gunstocks. They cost about $8 and you'll have it in a week. All you'd need to do is to shorten the rear bolt screw by about .112"(thats what the 7 of mine measured anyway). Stockade may even be able to sell you a new screw that is already shortened. It will help a little bit, but not near as much as a T&T job.

[scratcherky]

I would get on the phone with Lisa and find out your status on the wait list. I have had to wait several months but the results were worth it.

[Aircraftmech76]

Yep, four years as of August 23rd. Got the emails to prove it too. I've checked in by email and phone, but just haven't been called back or replied to about my actions. I'm thinking I don't want it done now, as bad as I want it done.

[Aircraftmech76]

Had a friend tell me about a mod for bolt lift effort, but I can't tell any difference really. It's a 38 Special case that I cut down and threw a ball bearing into the primer pocket. I'm guessing this is what Stockade has listed on their website.

[geargrinder]

Did you trim the BAS? If you didn't, you reduced the friction but added spring tension.

[pdog06]

Had a friend tell me about a mod for bolt lift effort, but I can't tell any difference really. It's a 38 Special case that I cut down and threw a ball bearing into the primer pocket. I'm guessing this is what Stockade has listed on their website.

Yeah, it is basically the same thing. But like Geargrinder said and why I mentioned it in my earlier post, if you did not trim the rear bolt assembly screw by that approx .112" or so(the thickness of the washer/casehead and however much ball bearing sticks up out of it) you will decrease the friction, but you will increase the spring tension. This essentially evens out at best, but can make it worse than it was.

By trimming the BAS you keep the same spring tension as you had, and lessen the amount of friction, which will ease boltlift somewhat.

[Aircraftmech76]

I wonder how much a guy could shorten the BAB and still get positive ignition?

[Aircraftmech76]

What the heck is that?

[pdog06]

I wonder how much a guy could shorten the BAB and still get positive ignition?

I gave you the correct way to install the bolt lift kit. You should not shorten the BAS unless you are installing the kit, and then you have to measure the kit and shorten the BAS that amount. If you shorten it anymore it could be unreliable, and I do not think anyone here would tell you to do that..

No matter what you do it will not lighten the bolt lift as much as Freds T&T job however. It is WELL worth the money, but up to the individual if it is worth the wait or not.

[bigbada]

[quote=pdog06 ]
patient!!! I'd say thats an understatement!....LOL

I made my appointment around May to have it done at the beginning of September(supposedly one of the first ones after they return from the Jamboree). I havent been called yet, and if youre ahead of me on the list I doubt Ill even own the gun anymore by the time it's time to be T&T'd...LOL I know they're busy so I have just forgotten about it, but if it was something I was really, really needing done I'd be pretty upset.

talk to kevin at stockade, he also does T&T's but not listed on his website.

[Aircraftmech76]

I made the initial request in 2006, and in 2007 I ordered a rimfire stock stock from them (very nice by the way), and inquired about it again then as well. I was told "within the next 90 days" and was even going to get the old T&T pricing for my troubles. That should give you guys some idea how long I've been waiting. I've been told by several friends of mine who have had it done that it's worth the wait, but four years? It had better be AWESOME-LOL.

Kevin

[Aircraftmech76]

I wonder how much a guy could shorten the BAB and still get positive ignition?

I gave you the correct way to install the bolt lift kit. You should not shorten the BAS unless you are installing the kit, and then you have to measure the kit and shorten the BAS that amount. If you shorten it anymore it could be unreliable, and I do not think anyone here would tell you to do that..

No matter what you do it will not lighten the bolt lift as much as Freds T&T job however. It is WELL worth the money, but up to the individual if it is worth the wait or not.

I understood your instructions in that you remove as much as you add. Perhaps my question was not asked correctly. I would like to see how much more could one remove from the BAB and still have positive ignition. I think we can all agree that most firearms are over-engineered / oversprung in many areas: triggers (thanks lawyers!), gas systems, etc. This is done to permit positive function during less than ideal scenarios. I'm a tinkerer by nature, and I'm just curious just how oversprung the firing pin spring is. It would be interesting to see how far it could be reduced until the rifle started having ignition problems. Once that is established, add a safety factor of say 10% to ensure positive ignition, and see what the resulting reduction would be. I'd be willing to sacrifice a BAB for that kind of research...that is, unless someone's already done it.

Kevin

Kevin

[MDM]

I got two lift kits from Kevin Rahill last week. I asked him about shortening the BAS, he said I could shorten it by 1/8" or not even bother to shorten it as some of the Savage springs are on the weak side anyway. I put them both in without shortening the BAS and I don't think I can tell any difference really. It probably would help if I shortened the screw.

[Blue Avenger]

I wonder how much a guy could shorten the BAB and still get positive ignition?

I gave you the correct way to install the bolt lift kit. You should not shorten the BAS unless you are installing the kit, and then you have to measure the kit and shorten the BAS that amount. If you shorten it anymore it could be unreliable, and I do not think anyone here would tell you to do that..

No matter what you do it will not lighten the bolt lift as much as Freds T&T job however. It is WELL worth the money, but up to the individual if it is worth the wait or not.

I'm a tinkerer by nature, and I'm just curious just how oversprung the firing pin spring is. It would be interesting to see how far it could be reduced until the rifle started having ignition problems. Once that is established, add a safety factor of say 10% to ensure positive ignition, and see what the resulting reduction would be. I'd be willing to sacrifice a BAB for that kind of research...that is, unless someone's already done it.

Kevin

Kevin

It's been tried. How are you going to know when you have enough for reliable ignition and enough to keep the pin from being blown back? Then how are you going to pass this along in a safe manner that will not get some one hurt trying to copy you?

[SFLEFTY]

Why would the pin be blown back Greg???? You would either still have a full firing pin dent and good ignition, or a shallower dent and inconsistent ignition. And my Savage is Oversprung and the cute little 38 case didn't help hardly at all.

[Aircraftmech76]

Keep a log of how much I've removed and track the results. I've never heard of a firing pin being blown back. The M14 firing pin is not spring loaded, but floats. I don't have problems with that rifle and it's firing pin design. I don't understand how this would be a problem.

[Tozguy]

In trying to lighten bolt lift by lightening the firing pin spring, you will be sacrificing lock time. If you read the Houston Warehouse secrets article in the Daily Bulletin of a few days ago, you will note that the 'experts' call for the heaviest spring that is feasible. Why don't you want a longer bolt handle? You are using good lub on the lugs right?

[Aircraftmech76]

In trying to lighten bolt lift by lightening the firing pin spring, you will be sacrificing lock time. If you read the Houston Warehouse secrets article in the Daily Bulletin of a few days ago, you will note that the 'experts' call for the heaviest spring that is feasible. Why don't you want a longer bolt handle? You are using good lub on the lugs right?

I read that article quite a few years ago. Those were some lucky, and talented, guys. I really enjoyed reading it. I too realized that increased lock time would be an issue here with a weaker firing pin spring. I wonder if a titanium firing pin would negate some of those side effects. Looks like another project for me :)
I am all for the longer bolt handle. Love 'em. I use a good lube on the lugs, the PE cam interface between the rear baffle and bolt handle, as well as the small space between the front lugs and the front baffle. I've also polished all those mating surfaces. I am looking forward to a T&T to see what kind of improvement there is in the bolt lift, as I have never tried an action with it.

Kevin

[SFLEFTY]

I think most Savages come with the heaviest spring that is feasible! I've got a lot of work in my not done yet one, and it still cocks harder than any other make.