full length vs neck sizing

[bobcat30]

I just recently got a neck sizer for my 243ai. I have a load worked up that shoots .4-.5 consistant on fl sized brass how much better or i should say will there be a big change if i just neck size? Meaning i have some brass that is fl sized and not loaded but dont have piles of brass to just set those aside and not use but i also have some fired stuff that needs to be sized . Is it going to change my load considerable? By the way when i full length size its absolute minimum shoulder set back just enough to close the bolt.

[Stu]

It's been my experience that it doesn't change much. Atleast on a .5 moa rifle. If any of mine were benchrest accurate maybe it would make a difference. When i get a rifle close to 1/2 moa i call it good and stop there. And i've never noticed fl or neck sizing changing the accuracy by any noticable difference when that is the only change to the load.

[Hammer]

.

When I was young... All the benchrest competitors neck-sized their brass. No one full-length sized except when a case would no longer enter a chamber without excessive force.

Today, the best benchrest shooter full-length sizes every time. His loading dies and his rifle chamber may vary from yours.

.

[Captain Finlander]

There is very little accuracy gained or lost from just neck resizing that I can tell. It just extends the life of the case due to less manipulation.

[82boy]

When I was young... All the benchrest competitors neck-sized their brass. No one full-length sized except when a case would no longer enter a chamber without excessive force.
Today, the best benchrest shooter full-length sizes every time. His loading dies and his rifle chamber may vary from yours.

It is funny how true this is. Necksizing is dieing but there is a many hardcore believers that keep it still alive. I guess some people are afraid of change, and some people say if it is not broke don't fix it.

Actually neck sizing doesn't extend brass life as much as people once believed it did. Actually the brass last longer when minimal FL sizing. What happens is the brass that is only neck sized creates a memory, and gets hard, and eventually will not go back into shape. Brass that is minimal FL sized gets exercised and stays soft, and therefore last longer.

As far as accuracy goes, I have never seen an advantage to only neck sizing. I would say that if anything it would be less accurate to neck size, because of extra steps needed to keep the brass usefull, such as body sizing ever third firing. I would say that with the use of several dies that this would allow a consintrisity problem to develop.

[Captain Finlander]

Well you learn something new every day.

[GaCop]

Amen to that! I've been old school neck sizing for many, many years and thought that was good. Turns out now I've wasted money on neck dies. Is the Lee collet die in the same catagory?

[bobcat30]

I found with my savage 12 204 neck sizing the same load gave me tighter groups by enough margin to justify the die. Was looking to do this with my 243 aI

[82boy]

Amen to that! I've been old school neck sizing for many, many years and thought that was good. Turns out now I've wasted money on neck dies. Is the Lee collet die in the same catagory?

Yup

[GaCop]

Bummer! My neck runout has been great using the collet die, far better than a standard full length or neck die.

[pphreed]

there was a good post either here or on reloaders nest yesterday on sizing The end result was you should fl size bump shouder back .001from measurement on once fired case and probably use a bushing for neck tension I have also seen that recommendation before I find it difficult to set a die that accurate Fred

[big honkin jeep]

Maybe I'm alone here but when neck sizing only using a lee collet die the groups from my 30-06 improve remarkably. It works for me so I don't think I'll be doing anything differently.
BHJ

[Lee C.]

bobcat, if it where just neck sizing over useing a regular fl die. I would go with the neck sizing, but you should cut your necks to keep them even all the way around and anneald so they stay soft and be able to keep from getting run out in the end.

Like 82boy said a fl die work better, but if i where you i'd look at the forster bump die frist. Only because you can set the shoulder back what you want and use a neck bushing to get the neck tension that works best for your load. By useing this kind of die i keep my run out on my bullets down to .001 or less, plus useing a regular fl die it will put alot more tension on the bullet than needed i think.

If i was shooting benchrest, i would go with a custom made fl die. that sized the hole case .001 under chamber and neck size. But at better than $200.00 for each one of my rifles thats to much for me. I've found the forster bump die the next best thing. But your stell going to have to anneal your brass to keep it in good working order an soft. I don't see how you can get away from it no matter what you use to get the most out of your brass. Will theres my .02 i hope it's help ya some.

[pphreed]

I have finally settled on a die that I like the redding full length bushing die and just bump the shoulder a little .001 is nice if you can be that accurate . Then you an also use the same die for different calibers as long as the have the same parent case I just bought a 7mm o8 barrel and used my 308 die with a smaller bushing and the case fit perfectly haven't put it on an action yet so can't say how it shoots . I use a 7mmstw die to do my 257 stw resizing works better than the custom/expensive dies I have just an all around better deal IMHO Fred

[82boy]

If i was shooting benchrest, i would go with a custom made fl die. that sized the hole case .001 under chamber and neck size. But at better than $200.00 for each one of my rifles thats to much for me.

You don't have to use the expensive dies, like Niel Jones. Harrell makes custom dies and they can be had for $70 shipped.

[Lee C.]

Thanks 82boy, Thats a good thing to know when looking at my next build. Have a good one

[bobcat30]

Thanks guys been thinkin of neck turning, funds really aernt there at the moment to buy the equipment. What is the best in your opinion neck turning equipment for a rookie. Meaning cost ease of use and such?

[bootsmcguire]

no thoughts on the neck turning, but I did a test with my 22-250 and 308. both 12fv's, fired from a bipod and a rear bag at 300 meters. I loaded two 5 round groups for each caliber. 5 FL sized and 5 just neck sized in once fired cases and neck sized using a Lee Collet die. Otherwise loads were identical. to keep the test as equal as possible I fired 5 in each gun, and then let the barrels cool for a half-hour. Then fired the other 5. Group on the 22-250 FL was about 2.5in, on the Neck Sized it was right at 1in. On the 308 it was 3.5in on the FL and 1.5in on the Neck sized.

Maybe there is a variable in my test that i did not address that made the difference, but from what I see the neck sized wins in the accuracy dept.

[sparky123321]

To each their own I guess.

I will continue to sort my brass by weight, turn the necks, neck size only, use Wilson hand dies, weigh my charges to + or - 0.04 grains and anneal the necks as needed. Please remember that many shooters use custom chamber reamers and or custom FL dies. What works for one person might not work for another. Bullet seating depth and runout are other BIG factors to consider. If you're not shooting for 1/4 MOA or less I guess most of this additional effort is not worth it for you.

Reloading is about the only time being slightly OCD has worked to my benefit.

Happy holidays and good shooting to all!

[GaCop]

I use the Lee collet dies to size my Federal brass fired in a Czech 98 Mauser action with a 24", Parker Hale, heavy match barrel with 1 in 14 twist. The load is a 150 grain SMK pushed by RE-15 powder to a chronographed 2711 fps. 100 yard groups are consistantly in the .500" range. My last test at 300 yards for this load turned in a group average of 1.9".

[82boy]

Thanks guys been thinkin of neck turning, funds really aernt there at the moment to buy the equipment. What is the best in your opinion neck turning equipment for a rookie. Meaning cost ease of use and such?

Unless you have a custom barrel chambered for a tight neck, or your playing with a wildcat that is necked up or down from original brass, don't worry about neck trimming. In a factory barrel you will never gain anything from neck trimming.

On neck cutters, buy something that you can get a matched sizing mandrel for. I recamend Sinclair because you use the sizing mandrel to trim with holding tolerances tighter. I use a Forster, but I have fitted my mandrels so that they are the same size. (Both sizing, and cutting) I have not replaced it because it works, but to do it all aver again I would gone another route. I also recamend if you trim multiple calibers to by multiple trimmers, because once you have one set just right will will not want to change it. Neck trimming takes patients and pratice. I know high end shooters that will not touch their brass, but will buy it already trimmed, in fear of messing something up. I recamend you get a tubing (or ball) micrometer to measure your neck thickness, if you do start cutting necks. What ever you do get a hand held unit, (Like a Sinclair, KM, Pumpkin, Forster, ETC) do not use the attachments that go onto length trimmers. (Trust me on this adventure I have been there done that got the t shirt to prove it.)

There is one other avenue of neck cutting you can go down but I don't recamend it, and that is inside neck reaming. Wilson and other company's have made inside neck reamers for years, they are not popular because they are not adjustable. It takes a bit of a masters touch to get this right. I use them but 99% only to champher the edge of the neck.

Well good luck in your endever, and happy holidays.