Reply With QuoteYou sure the extractor snapped over the rim of the go-gauge?
First time DIY barrel swap. Go/nogo headspaced OK without extractor/ejector, as commonly recommended. Then, checked headspace with extractor/ejector and bolt would not close on go gage. What is going on here? What is the true headspace? Thanks for any suggestions.
You sure the extractor snapped over the rim of the go-gauge?
Thinking that as well. Or, did you check it WITHOUT those parts, then FINISH torquing? Did you check again AFTER torquing, or not again until everything was in. If so, you could have spun the barrel in a bit more with torquing.
This is the first question I had. Easy to spin the action on the barrel and change headspace inadvertently.Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I've always left the extractor in. I can feel it push over the rim and I'm just lazy enough that if it isn't a problem, I don't want the extra work. Not to mention risking shooting a bearing and spring across my garage. Been there done that and it sucks.
I have never removed the Ejector or the Extractor from any bolt head when setting the head space on any barrel. I've probably swapped out over two dozen barrel's over the years, and have never had a single issue with the head space not being perfect every time.
I agree with David that it is very easy to rotate the barrel or action depending on what you have clamped. I use a action wrench and barrel vise to control that movement.
As an experinced Savagesmith(A regular guy who works on his own stuff), I agree with Txhillbilly. For an inexperienced Savagesmith, this is where having the go and no go gauge or using a shim/tape is used so you know exactly where you are. Double check, tripple check before you move on to the next operation in your process. Ask more questions. Good luck.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Shims are the way to go! I have my Forster GO gauge and a .0039” shim. I’ve also had .0025” & .003” shims. All are from feeler gauges to the same circumstance of the Go gauge. Works perfectly.
But yes... for inexperienced, just get BOTH gauges. I don’t recommend tape either, as tape compresses & it’s all different thicknesses depending on brand & type. Want a RIDGED stop on the gauges.
You want to use Mylar tape. And yes, measure before use. Another trick I use
for a case I intend to shoot.....I take a couple of cases and bump the shoulders
back a few thou. I then headspace tight to these. Mark these. and store them
in your die box.
Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952
Get a cheap feeler gauge and cut little circles out of it as shim stock. And I personally only take out the extractor as it's easy enough...the ejector is the PITA.
Thats precisely what I said. Good stuff! Gives you an exact setting. Although, it’s not for everyone. Not everyone has mechanical aptitude as you or I my friend. So for them I would recommend getting both. Or, if they understand it correctly, use the GO gauge with tape. That is how I started.
I headspace it how I’m gonna shoot it. With a complete bolt assembly. Never really saw an advantage removing the ejector and have never had any issues. More than one way to skin a cat I guess. Just personal preference.
I always thought that if the ejector changes headspace that much then why would I want to headspace with out it, then reinstall it to shoot?
”I have a very strict gun control policy: if there’s a gun around, I want to be in control of it.”
~Clint Eastwood
Without.
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I remove the extractor easy enough to do. I leave the ejector pita to remove, but I make sure it will compress into the bolt face.
Thanks guys for your observations and comments. Sorry I am so late with a response. Makes me confident leaving in the extractor and ejector. By way of closure, after my post I lightly filed the ejector face as it was slightly proud of the bolt face. This and a little lube on the extractor bevel produced perfect results with both new brass and the two headspace gauges.
It would not. See my post further down
Good stuff brother! Glad you got it down.
I always wondered why some suggested to do it without the extracted and ejector, it always seemed to me you’d want the headspace perfect with the gun in a condition to fire. Glad I read this thread, it was. A great question I didn’t know I had
The point is if it changed anything, it wouldn't be TRUE headspace. Proper headspace is from the FACE of the Bolt Head... NOT the SURFACE of the Ejector. The way some of you are likening this to being as "condition to fire" is completely wrong. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad to check with the ejector in, but as we JUST SAW in the OP's case, the Ejector WAS causing an INCORRECT reading because it was TOO long. The fact remains that DOESN'T happen with the Ejector removed. And it doesn't create some situation of checking with it NOT in "ready to fire". It CAN'T be a false reading with the Ejector out. That's the only thing some of you need to realize.
Once again, because I know reading comprehension isn't what it once was, it's FINE to check it EITHER way. But understand if there are different readings, SOMETHING is wrong. Just as the OP found out. It's GOOD he checked with the Ejector out, otherwise he would have had a FALSE reading, as the Ejector was sitting PROUD of the bolt face.
You should be able to tell if your headspace is correct or not regardless of whether the extractor and ejector are in or not. IMHO you're skimping too much by not having a no-go gauge and trying to substitute making one by adding something to the back of the go-gauge. In the grand scheme of things, the gauges aren't that expensive. I don't care how much experience one has, including myself, and I've changed quite a few barrels myself. I always use both the go and no-go gauges. If the ejector isn't going in far enough to set proper headspace, you're going to know it by checking with the no-go gauge. It will either close or almost close on the no-go if the ejector isn't going far enough in to the bolt face.
”Skimping”?? LOL... My friend, you simply are out of your league on this oneI’ve been doing this a good long while. And I’m quite proficient at it. Many here are. Many have done this, setting
eadspace with new brass even; because with wildcats, THERE ARE NO Gauges! For me, MAKING shims to use instead of a NO GO has nothing to do with scrounging or skimping. I do it because using shims which are exacting to a THOUSANDTH of an an inch, is FAR more precise than your NO GO Gauge. The NO GO gauges give a SLOPPY fit.
I don’t expect less knowledgeable to understand, but you should be careful saying things about those things you don’t understand.
To each their own. If you want to do it that way then fine. I stand by what I said though and I've also been doing it a long time but never claimed to be an expert, nor was I being insulting by the way I expressed my opinion. I see I struck a nerve by the know it all attitude in your post, so excuse the heck out of me.
Lol! Not a problem. I agree with your sentiment of to each their own, absolutely. I was simply pointing out your error. Not angry, or had any “nerve struck” as you put it. I thought the emojis reflected the even tempered response, but guess not. Using a precise measuring tool is not “Backyard Barney” having at it. No-Go gauges actually are t very precise. The measurement varies among manufacturers up to 2-3 thous. And ALL of them are loose. 4 Thous at least! I made several shims of EXACTING shim stock. I cut them from precision, Stainless steel Feeler Gauges. I made .0039”, .003” & .0025” shim. I’ve known a few who made them down to .001”, for a SUPER tight chamber headspace. That’s all I was saying. These are EXACTING tolerances, not “skimping” as you incorrectly stated. I don’t want the less experienced here reading & forming misguided, incorrect knowledge. As the saying goes, “You are entitled to your own opinion, NOT your own FACTS!”
Im sorry you thought I was irritated.. I wasn’t. And I’m not saying you are doing wrong by using a NoGo. Of course it’s not WRONG. But neither is using exact tolerance shims. Which YOU did say was wrong, by calling it skimping. Some people simply can’t accept FACT right in front of them.
So go gauges are ok but no-go's aren't? I know there's variances between manufacturers and you shouldn't mix and match them. But a set from the same manufacturer should be very close. I always use gauges from the same manufacturer for the specific chambering and set it pretty tight on the go-gauge. I wasn't referring to the use of feeler gauges so much as using tape as many do. However, just because YOU said it, doesn't make it fact either. So where's your proof that the gauges are that sloppy? And you think there's no variances between feeler gauge manufacturers as well? They may be very close, but nothing man made is perfect and I'd bet it's possible that feeler gauges could be off a little too. Enough to matter? Probably not. Obviously, there's more than one way to skin a cat as neither of us have blown ourselves up. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. I've never had an issue over the years, and never had a problem with premature case life, or anything else that would come with excessive headspace.
But yes, you do come across as very arrogant and condescending in your responses to those who may not entirely agree with you. I've noticed it in quite a few of your responses on this forum. You may not mean it that way, but that's the way it's portrayed. Given that, I will refrain from responding to you from here on.
Anyway, the OP got himself SQUARED away which is what matters. And the satisfaction of doing it one’s self. Good stuff bud!
It did not, that was the problem. After the initial post, I solved the problem by lightly filing the face of the extractor which was slightly proud of the bolt face and lubing the bevel of the extractor. Then bolt easily closed on the go gauge and would not on the nogo. Extractor removed the go from the chamber normally.
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