Hello, I browsed a bit and did not see another thread on the precision line of the Axis rifles, so forgive me if this is in the wrong spot.
I picked up this rifle this last weekend and mounted my Millet TRS for a quick sight in to see what it could do at 100 meters.
This rifle comes with a modular MDT stock that is very non traditional and has some cool features. The cheek rest is adjustable and the stock length of pull has "quick change" 1/4" spaces to adjust. These spacers are the first issue I encountered, I am not tall (5'8") and wanted to remove all the spacers, when I was reassembling I found the screws would bottom out in the stock. I had to replace two of the four spacers to get the screws to not bottom out! When I called Savage they watched a video that showed only two spacers removed. When I asked what is the correct way to remove all the manager told me the spacers were not to be removed???? WTH? I mean I can cut the screw down and dress up the threads but really?
Ok so for now with two spacers in I hit the range, first ammo to test is Win green tip because I have like 3k rounds and it shoots very consistent sub 1" groups with my AR at 100 meters. Click.......... hmmmmm, light hammer strike, second try Click......... crap. Well switch to some PMC I have Bang, bang, mostly bangs and only two failure to fire in the box of 20.
I clean the rifle and pay close attention to the bolt and lightly lube, retest......no difference.
So light hammer strikes, same issue I had with my last precision bolt gun purchase (different brand and the manufacturer stalled for weeks, but finally admitted they had an issue and sent another firing spring that fixed the problem 100%. So far I am waiting on the response from Savage but after my initial experience i have little hope they will have a 100% fix. Any suggestions from the forum?
Last edited by Racegunz; 11-29-2021 at 10:41 PM. Reason: spelling error
An OEM Oryx stock comes with multiple screws to accommodate the various number of spacers. Just get some shorter ones...
Firing pins/springs should be DRY....no lube as it slows them down. Green tip rounds are 5.56 and likely has hard primer cups...not really designed for a precision rifle. Get some .223 and try again. My Axis does not like 5.56 rounds either.
What celltech said. It is a 223 rifle and not cross rated to fire 5.56 like most AR's are. The 5.56 tends to give hard bolt lifts in bolt action rifles that are designed just for 223 Rem.
The misfiring is a hard primer issue. Been there done that, it’s a real PITA on my blackout. Get a stronger firing pin spring or shoot 223. None of the above “issues” are a big deal. Man up and take care of them your self.
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Yeah, can't make my own stronger firing pin spring, but I did make a pre-load spacer in my shop today and checked the firing pin penetration which was at .050 so good there. The preload spacer got me to about 80% on the military spec ammo and 100% on the factory .223. sourcing my own screws on a new gun is not what I would call "manning up" but to each there own I guess. Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
Thanks for the preloading suggestion, I need to see if it will help my ruger American fire military ammo.
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I would not say 'man up' about it. Obviously if Savage put a bunch of spacers in there they should either include some shorter screws or deeper screw holes in the stock. Should be a simple fix for them and it is inexcusable for them to not fix it.
If you read around, there have been multiple posts about the Axis bolt and light primer strikes. OTOH, my cheap Walmart special Axis in .223 has never had a failure to fire, even with bulk 5.56 ammo. It all might be a design issue with Axis bolts, or grit left in the bolts from the mfg process, but, it does seem to be an issue. I suspect Savage does not 'fix' it since they are VERY clear that they do not approve firing ANY milsurp ammo in their rifles, including .308 and .30-06. I can understand part of that since a lot of military ammo has harder than 'normal' primer cups to withstand use in machine guns.
The other side of that is when a mfg makes changes so they can fire milurp. I have and HK pistol with a very stiff recoil spring so it will function with military level 9mm ammo. It sometimes fails to feed when shooting std grade factory ammo, especially the 115gn stuff. I paid extra for a reduced recoil spring so I could fire the lighter stuff.
So, mfgs make choices about how they design their arms.
FWIW, Savage lists the ammo they use to test rifles. Much of it is match ammo, like Fed Gold Medal.
That's the long answer.
Short answer is that I believe Savage messed up the design of the Axis bolt and have not come up with a good fix yet. Maybe they never will.
I appreciate the response Charlie, I hoped to find a solution on here (maybe an aftermarket spring?) I think my preload spacer will do the trick for factory .223, if I can't shoot the milspec ammo it's not the end of the world I have an AR for that.
My update for the stock spacers is that I cut off .750" of the top 10x32 cap screw and dressed up the threads. If anyone wants to put all 4 spacers back in they will have to source a 2" 10/32 socket head cap screw. I agree with you I should not have to do that on a new 950.00 firearm. In fact with a bit of planning I think you could drill the top screw blind hole deeper and it would work out. For me it was not worth the risk or the time. For Savage and MDT it's bad manufacturing and engineering to let this slip through.
I got some CCI primers that come in a white box with black lettering. It says No. 41 primers for 5.56mm Ammunition. Are these military primers? I have had a few misfires with them in the 223 Axis. The same primers in the 783 Remington have never failed. I don't believe I have had any failures with my other CCI primers but they come in a different looking box.
Yes, they are the milspec primers. Many folks look for those specifically for their AR's.
I agree about the stock screws. I am especially surprised that MDT does not supply the shorter screws with their stocks. Or, maybe they usually do, but, it would cost Savage a few extra cents to include them so they don't.
If you buy an Oryx chassis from MDT (which is what the Precision chassis is) they do come with multiple sets of screws. Obviously Savage has ordered a custom setup and saved every penny they can.Originally Posted by charlie b
Sucks to hear this. I have the same rifle in 6.5 creedmoor, and it’s the most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned! I have yet to find any factory ammo it doesn’t shoot sub MOA, and with hand loads, it’s sub 1/4” MOA. I like it so much, I’ve gave serious thought to selling a couple of my hunting rifles in .270, .308, and 30.06, and replacing them with the Axis II Precision’s. This is what it will do with hand loads! That’s a 3 shot group, when I was testing some Hornady 129 grain Interlock SP’s with H4350.
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If you are asking me, I do not know the answer. Seems weird to call out the caliber on a primer box.
Man that is what I am hoping for.........Sucks to hear this. I have the same rifle in 6.5 creedmoor, and it’s the most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned! I have yet to find any factory ammo it doesn’t shoot sub MOA, and with hand loads, it’s sub 1/4” MOA. I like it so much, I’ve gave serious thought to selling a couple of my hunting rifles in .270, .308, and 30.06, and replacing them with the Axis II Precision’s. This is what it will do with hand loads! That’s a 3 shot group, when I was testing some Hornady 129 grain Interlock SP’s with H4350.
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So after Savage gave me the answer of "the spacers are not removable" I reached out to MDT who confirmed there should be a shorter screw included, they are sending me a set (because i already cut mine down) I will keep them with the manual and trigger adj tool incase I ever sell it.
They are made for use in AR platform rifles. Harder primer cup.
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The primer is hard to reduce the likelihood of a slam fire. Which means that the inertia of the firing pin coming forward is enough to detonate the primer, I’ve never seen it personally on an AR but I once had an SKS dump a whole mag of Winchester white box 7.62x39.They are made for use in AR platform rifles. Harder primer cup.
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I just came in from shooting the 22-250. I also have some CCI primers just like the ones pictured in the above post, No. 41 for 7.62mm Ammunition but it doesn't say "Large Rifle Military Primers". I had a misfire on 1 out of 12 rounds. First time that has happened in the 22-250 but also the first time I have used these primers.
I just shot a few groups after cleaning the bore and no impressive groups so far with any ammo, the best being about .75" and the worst nearly 2". When looking things over I noticed off center firing pin strikes on the primers. My critical thinking tells me this is not a good thing as the firing pin hole doesn't look to be off center in the bolt and if it is not off center then that means potentially the bore is off center of the bolt. Also noticed all shot brass has a flat side on the mouth inline with the short side of the offset primer strike........ I think a call to savage is in order on this.
Has any one else noticed this in their AXIS?
Note Savage closed my online warranty service request without ever talking to me or commenting.
Last edited by Racegunz; 12-02-2021 at 09:09 AM. Reason: update
Yes the CCI 41s are mil-spec primers
I wanted to close this thread out with the solution I came up with. I was very reluctant to send back to savage as far as I know they do not guarantee accuracy, so maybe they would fix the light hammer strikes and I would be out shipping and insurance and a lot of time. So since I do have some gunsmithing experience (1911s mostly) I decided to deep dive this rifle and accuracy issue.
I bought the necessary tools to rechamber and if necessary to set the barrel back and headspace. I have a Grizzly gunsmith lathe and a mill and the tooling and indicators to do most of the work. I bought the following for this specific task.
.223 Wylde finish reamer
.223 Rem go and nogo headspace guages
Savage barrel nut wrench
Before I started I measured the headspace and it was in limits so that was not an issue. I bore scoped the chamber and to be honest it looked ok visually centered and uniform no chatter. My expectations were low that re-chambering would fix anything since it looked ok. I measured the bolt to breech endplay or freeplay whatever you may call it I read it should be around .006-.008 on a precision rifle. This one was .0195 so pretty sloppy (maybe contributing to the light hammer?) I actually was happy to find this as that gave me .012 to rechamber without having to set the barrel back and still be in the range for a precision fit for the bolt to breechface.
I disassembled the action from the barrel, this was a job as I did not have an action wrench and used some hardwood block and c-clamps for a barrel vise with heavy tape to protect the finish. All that said it took some work to get the barrel to break free. Once that was done I set the barrel on my lathe and measured the go gauge protrusion it was .120 on the dot the bolt face depth was around .108 with my calipers. This gave me a range I could ream the barrel at around .012 again. I decided that I would ream to .009 by checking the go gauge protrusion with my .0005 resolution dial then assemble and check everything out.
The reamer took most of the metal off the upper sidewalls and moved the depth .000 for several cycles, once I saw shavings on the shoulder and throat I knew I was close and took light passes till I hit my mark, going well I decided to continue to .010.
After reassembling I set the go gauge in the chamber and played with the action and bolt until I was sure it was a near perfect fit to the go gauge without resistance and locked it down and torqued to 35 ft lbs. The bolt closed with no resistance on the go and was not even close to closing on the no go gauge. Success!
Now for the actual test, shooting for accuracy, note this rifle had never shot a sub moa group with any ammo period. My first group at my 80 meter home range was a four shot group with the military green tip. M885 a good test of the Wylde reamer design as this ammo had shown pressure signs in the rifle before (when it would actually fire them). The first four shots (yes they all fired) were just over .500, 3 were touching and I know I pulled one of them a bit. Since I have already voided my warranty I can now freely shoot reloads without worry. My first four shot group with 23.5 grs of H335 and 68 gr hornady match bullets went again 3 in the same ragged hole basically and a "flyer" that opened the group to just over .500 again.
I think I fixed this rifle and can only assume that the chamber was the main culprit and the bolt freeplay also a contributing factor.
Last edited by Racegunz; 01-12-2022 at 08:23 PM. Reason: spelling
Nice job Racegunz.
Excellent explanation and fix, Bravo!
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
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