if you expect ACCURACY to 600 and beyond, you need to start paying attention to small details.
hitting a 3 or 4 moa plate at 1000 is not the same as shooting a 5 shot group on a paper target at 1000
just to be clear....6mmbr IS NOT A COMPETITIVE 1000 YARD ROUND
6bra/6 dasher are, as are a couple of others.
there was ONE 6br at the 1000 nationals and no it did not win, not place well
it works great at 600, but just not enough for 1000.
mostly 6 dashers and 6bra.
if you expect ACCURACY to 600 and beyond, you need to start paying attention to small details.
hitting a 3 or 4 moa plate at 1000 is not the same as shooting a 5 shot group on a paper target at 1000
Yep. But, the OP specifically said fun shooting and that is my goal as well. My 1000yd target is usually a milk jug. My 600yd target is a 5" plate.
fun does not have to be poor or even average.
you are basically talking 1 moa at distance...it aint easy no matter what internet shooters say.
conditions are everything. i saw the results from a BENCHREST 600 yard match last weekend..and there were lots of 5 shot groups way over 6 inches...from true custom rifles. you want real accuracy, not internet claims, pay attention to the details.
Originally Posted by charlie b
I don't disagree. And, yes, conditions are everything and you have to pay attention to details. That's why I don't even go to the range if the wind is over 15mph (which is a lot of days out here).
I was referring to your statement that a 6BR is not a competitive round for 1000yd. I know it isn't, but I will end up shooting it at that range anyway. Just like my .308 and .223 are not competitive at 1000yd, but, I shoot them that far anyway. I can have a few 'misses' and not be disappointed about losing a match.
please note your statement and the posters request.
he is done with his 308 so wants a an improvement for 1000....
neither 308 nor 6mmbr are viable small target rounds for 1000.
both have been shot at the distance in comp...nether are competitive
so why reccomend a 6br...when a 6bra will work and bbls avaiable ??
Sorry, but, I would disagree. I will be moving from .308 to 6BR as well. Why? Less recoil and more efficient cartridge. I don't want to mess with something like the Dasher. I have considered the 6BRA but the difference in vel is minimal so will probably stick with the std 6BR.
6BRA is ok and 6BR is not? So 100fps makes that much difference in performance? Interesting. So which velocity is too much? 6x47? 6XC? 6CM?
Just looked at the 2019 1000 national listing.
1st place two gun was a 6BRI, but, second place was a .30
Top 6BR was 10th place and he outshot a lot of 6BRA and Dashers.
Small group for light gun was a 6.5CM
I'd hate to make definitive statements about which cartridge is better. Would the .30cal shooter have won if he had used a 6Dasher? Or should all the shooters who finished below 10th change to a 6BR cause that guy beat them?
Or will 'everyone' change to a 6BRI cause that one won in 2019?
what nationals ?
bri is an IMPROVED, basically a 6bra
and 2 gun is a bs answer...where did he finish with just the bri....
10th is not 1st and i will bet it was not a savage.
keep an apples to apples comparison
and that was 2 years ago...what i posted was this year.
2021 ibs nationals,
an internationally known organization held in montana in middle aug.
1st 6.5gt
after that 10 "bra" ackley improved 6br mixed
with 6 dashers a br blown out about 0.1
3 listed caliber(6mm) no cartridge.
in 60 plus rifles not a single 6br
a savage rifle in 61st place in 22-250
again no 6br as it is not a competitive 1000 yd round
to create a 6bra one fires a 6br in a round in a rifle chambered in 6bra
one can do a no turn neck and just shoot as is.
YES the extra in that little change is what makes a bra competitive at 1000 and a 6br NOT.
YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ CHARTS BETTER.
THE POINTS ON THE 6BR in the 2 gun results clearly show the gun did not do well finishing with a high point score.
so no he did not out shoot a bunch of 6bras and dashers.
of the 20 listed(not all) there are 18 ahead of him, with out all we do not know where he finished in lg with his 6br.
"Editor’s Comment: Looking at the Two-Gun Top 20 Equipment List above, we see the Light Gun Ranks were dominated by 6mm Dashers, and 6 BRAs (BR Ackleys), most using Hodgdon H4895 powder. "
LIKE all you are entitled to an opinion it is not backed up by DATA
Good grief! Pdshooter... who are arguing with? You’re the ONLY one talking today, LOL!
I’m just joking. But really... it’s OK if we disagree. Really. This isn’t Snipershide-away camp, or B-arf.com Forums. Where the INTERWEB gun “experts” order people to conform.
I don't disagree with a lot of what was said. Yes, I did read the charts right and the 6BR did outshoot some of the other cartridges. This listings indicate if the shooter used a different cartridge for the heavy part and many did not. The 2nd place finish was a .30cal of unknown type.
Yes, it was 2019 that I looked at. And, yes, many were using 6BRA or a variant. Which is also interesting as in some years before the Dasher seemed to show up more and was declared the cartridge to have and the 6BRA was rarely seen. Seems there is a 'backward' trend here.
Of course there are still a few who come up with something slightly different every year as well.
And, yes, if I wanted to be competitive at the national level I would not own a Savage :)
What I would like to know is if the top shooter had a 6BR instead of a 6BRA or Dasher, would he still have finished first? I would bet the answer is yes, as long as he was confident in his rifle and his shooting. At that level it is more about shooter skill, state of mind and wind conditions.
PS yes I am very aware of how easy 6BRA brass is to form. It follows the Ackley formula of just blowing out the shoulder and giving the case a little less taper, slightly increasing the volume. Ackley also believed the 40deg shoulder was better for powder combustion and internal ballistics. The downside is they can sometimes not feed as well.
and a cartridge that will perform at 1000
how many time do i have to say a 6br is just a bit under powdered which is why 6 dasher and 6bra are used.
bra is favored over dasher as it is much easier to form...as in load and shoot for the most part
all three work at 600, the 6br lacks capacity for 1000
down side is most target rifles are shot single...no need to feed from a mag
my final suggestion is to take the bbl and have it rechambered to a 6br improved( there are several, bra is only one.)
he looses no components...just gains distance.
One area you might have pointed out that would make more difference to competitive shooters is this chart from a couple years ago. This goes back to how easy it is to load for and how much tolerance there is when loading. If a cartridge only performs well with one specific loading then it isn't as useful as one that shoots several bullet weights at difference loads accurately.
Seems just a while ago that people were so worked up over the Dasher that nothing else would do. BRA was going to be dead in the water and 'everyone' was going to be changing to a Dasher. Now it seems not so much.
Yep, there isn't a lot of downside to the 6BRA, except it does have to be formed. Yes, it isn't a big deal, you just shoot them. And at least one I know of said they have even shot a match while fireforming their brass.
For informal shooting I just don't see a huge advantage to it. I am not looking to get a tiny group at 1000yd, or even 600yd. Just sub-MOA would make me happy. And, yes, I can do that with my .308. I would just rather not have the recoil of the heavier slugs. So, after a lot of research I decided that the 6BR family had just about the perfect mix of bullet weight and velocity for me. I even thought about the BRA for a while, for all the reasons mentioned. I have decided that my next barrel will be just a plain 6BR for the reasons I have given.
you are a lost cause that will not accept the facts that 6bra and 6 dasher are used better than 20 to 1 in 1000 yard shooting.
there is a real factual reason, not an opinion
you use charts that have NO BEARING ON THE CHOICE.
the chart is more useless information, not data
an example of poor information and not telling the truth.
" Yes, I did read the charts right and the 6BR did outshoot some of the other cartridges."
"some"implies more than ONE, in the chart you posted the 6br is 19 of 20, so he only
out shot ONE, not some
i hope the poster is watching the FACTS.
the poster said he was tired of 308 and wanted to move on..6br is not, 6bra is. a simple FACT OF LIFE AT 1000 YARDS
Yep, I guess I am a lost cause :) All over less than 100fps difference.
pdshooter2, you Win You are the 1k yard champ. You have made the most NOISE and tirade. In all honesty the average shooter is not going to attempt to go through everything that competition shooters do to be competitive. They are not going to buy high end gear nor take the steps to make competition ammunition's. They are not going to invest in chamber reamers or custom cut dies.
Sure everyone whats to and thinks they can easily shoot to 1k yards and beyond until they actually do it. Think the OP will invest in all that? All the money and time? Yes this also involves TIME. I know 3 F Class shooters and yes they live it, breathe it! Granted not one of them is shooting a 6BR.
I’m still trying to figure out what pdshooter is arguing?? Nobody disagreed, rather simply said what they intend to do. Why is someone so personally attacked by another showing 6BR?
I do understand the arguement.
If you are going to build a 1000yd rifle then why do anything less than the winners? Especially when the difference is simply a chamber and fireform?
I guess the other side of the coin is why would anyone choose a Savage to start with for a 1000yd rifle? I am using mine cause it is what I have. It will never be competitive so that is not part of the decision process.
I gave my reasons for why I am going the way I am. Some just won't understand why I am making my decisions that way.
Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk
+1I’m still trying to figure out what pdshooter is arguing??
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