NewtoSavage, could you elaborate on your comment:
CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But surely you know that too.
Bill Cook
You mean.... its possible to substitute a .308 bullet for a .311 bullet. WOW! I had no clue.
LOL...careful who you are accusing of ignorance.
Now... if you believe that substituting a bullet of .003 less diameter than the bore is a way to superb accuracy....by all means.
I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle. Like an idiot, I let a friend talk me out of it. Local gunsmith did the rebarrel (308") back around 2004. He did excellent work. Sadly, he's gone now.
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
What he is referring to is that some mfgs who cut 7.62x39 barrels are using a groove dia of .308, not the .311 that the AK's use.Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Oh yeah... I’m aware Charlie. My point, there is sacrificing either way. No FREE LUNCH. You can fire either through either....but need to be aware of pressure and/or accuracy issues. Not a problem of course, just something to think about. The fact is MOST people choose 7.62x39 because of the availability of plentiful, CHEAP, steel cased/Berdan primed ammunition. That is a FACT. Again, MOST people aren’t choosing x39 with the thought of doing a .310 or .308 groove diam., and having some kind of Accuracy Monster! Most people aren’t even aware of different groove diameter barrels in the 7.62’s case, for that matter. I’m not speaking of dedicated reloaders of course. Matt & I have talked quite a bit on things other than just this, & I consider him a friend here. We’ve given ideas back & forth in the past & I’m genuinely interested in his projects. I’m not coming down on anyone who’s chosen the x39 route or saying their rig lacks accuracy. If it works for them, awesome! I honestly don’t care. But simply put, 7.62x39 is not on my list of an PURE accurate build. I can ring off like 5 others without much thought, that would have overall better characteristics. That’s not the same as saying the 7.62x39 CAN’T be accurate. Of course it can be...just as ANY cartridge CAN BE!
My last response was in answer of accusations of Ignorance. The statement I know little about the subject is both divisive & incorrect. An attempt to discredit because he feels a personal insult that x39 is not among my favorite calibers. Ya know guy..... it’s “OK” if we like different cartridges. I never said it sucks & I certainly never discredited it, as he falsely claimed. I simply don’t believe it’s “number 1” as he does. Oh....and news flash.... MOST shooters would agree with me.
Few years ago a friend had a Savage Scout in 7.62x39 and he said the same.I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle.
Wm, NewtoSavage is referring to several threads on other forums like ar15.com, the high road, etc., in which reloaders have found that the Powder “CFE Black”, made by Hodgdon, although specifically formulated for 300AAC, has actually responded quite favorably to 7.62x39. It was a failed attempt by him, to illicit some kind of knowledge based “dick measuring”....I guess to show how much I DON’T know??
Anyway, I don’t really think it was some HUGE breakthrough! This happens with many cartridges. Years ago, the 260 Remington guys started touting Reloader17 as the “Great Equalizer” of powders for the 260. Just as CFE Black.... Reloader 17 was blown out of proportion. Is R17 a good powder, sure! I use it...Gives outstanding velocity. But it can be temperature sensitive and has its characteristics to deal with. There is no MAGIC powder for any cartridge that somehow makes it vastly superior.
Sounds like an uninformed or inexperienced comment to me, considering I've done it for years and shot many, many sub-MOA groups doing this. But if you consider breaking 7 straight 4" clays at 300 yards, on video, using a 4x scout scope (with an 11" holdover) from a Savage 7.62x39 scout to be unacceptable, then I don't know what to tell you.
Dave, apparently you've been triggered. Do try to calm down.
Sounds to me like you've never even used CFE BLK in a 7.62x39. Do you even handload for 7.62x39?
I owned two and they were two of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned, bar none.
What I'm saying is it doesn't matter as much as people think. I've loaded .311's for a .308 bore and vise-versa with outstanding accuracy in both directions. It's a bit of a myth that keeps perpetuating itself that it matters so much. But people who have never tried it read stuff on the internet and just take it as gospel I guess.
Bill, I went back and checked my reloading notes last night after posting that. With CFE BLK, I was able to safely get 2650 fps. out of 125 grain nosler BT's and 123 grain SST's. That's smoking. And the accuracy was superb. Before that I was using Reloder 7 and although it was very accurate, I couldn't get better than 2350-2400 tops with those bullets. 2650 is flirting with .308 starting loads, but using a lot less powder in a smaller case and therefore generating a lot less recoil.
Hand loaded 7.62x39 in a bolt action is arguably one of the best hunting rounds for small framed and recoil-sensitive shooters I can imagine. Very deadly and superbly accurate with very low recoil. I've used my bolt action 7.62x39's as training and 1st hunting rifles for a number of young people I've mentored over the years. They flat out love shooting those rifles, which means they are eager to practice and they become good shots. They feel safer and are less intimidated by a simple bolt action rifle too. Then when the bullet hits the critter, they see quick and easy recoveries which makes the whole experience very positive for them.
Delete
I just finished a savage axis in 7.62x39.
Bolt head
Barrel (not a .308 but a .310 bore is ideal)
savage makes factory magazines in 7.62x39 and factory .223 mags will feed it but work better if you open the feed lips just a hair.
savage axis
22" savage sporter profile Mcgowen barrel (strongly recommend this brand) proper .310 with a 1-10 twist
factory savage 7.62x39 magazines with axis floorplate.
Boyds pro varmint stock
SWFA SS 10x42 MOA in vortex rings on a egw base.
stays between 1.5" and .75" with wolf at 100 yards consistently. Makes for a perfect rifle for sub 200 yards or (like for me) a cheap option to learn MOA calculations and scope dialing.
Obviously i say go for it. Even with the ammo ban. I was thinking of rebarreling this to a .308 due to the ban. That said i can buy us made brass 7.62x39 for around the same cost of .223. No that is not happy news, its nearly double the usual price. But i would rather have this over a .223. Obviously being as this rifle started out as a HB .223 axis.
If you find a way to run 7.62x39 in AICS magazines please PM me with the info. That is the only thing that stopped me from using a chassis instead of a boyds stock. To my knowledge no one has made it work 100%
Great looking rifle, good work.
The mag issue isn't the end of the world but I know its a problem for the AR guys so figured it would be with us too.
Fantastic rifle. I bet you love shooting it. I know my 7.62x39 bolt guns were the most coveted at the range anytime I brought them. I lost track of the number of guys and gals who I let shoot them over the years. Everyone said they were going to consider getting one after shooting mine. They are just so much fun and like you said - inside 200 yards very deadly for deer and pigs.I just finished a savage axis in 7.62x39.
Bolt head
Barrel (not a .308 but a .310 bore is ideal)
savage makes factory magazines in 7.62x39 and factory .223 mags will feed it but work better if you open the feed lips just a hair.
savage axis
22" savage sporter profile Mcgowen barrel (strongly recommend this brand) proper .310 with a 1-10 twist
factory savage 7.62x39 magazines with axis floorplate.
Boyds pro varmint stock
SWFA SS 10x42 MOA in vortex rings on a egw base.
stays between 1.5" and .75" with wolf at 100 yards consistently. Makes for a perfect rifle for sub 200 yards or (like for me) a cheap option to learn MOA calculations and scope dialing.
Obviously i say go for it. Even with the ammo ban. I was thinking of rebarreling this to a .308 due to the ban. That said i can buy us made brass 7.62x39 for around the same cost of .223. No that is not happy news, its nearly double the usual price. But i would rather have this over a .223. Obviously being as this rifle started out as a HB .223 axis.
Great fun to shoot at 300+ too.
480 yards is all the reach i have here at home. For things with a heartbeat i keep that rifle under 200 yards though. For water bottles and crawfish mounds, its game on lol. Going to really miss picking 1000 rounds of 123g HP wolf for only $350 locally. Makes me cry knowing ill be spending closer to $600-$800 for 1000 rounds now and possibly forever due to Obiden. That said its my favorite little rifle. Had a guy recently offer me $600 for it. He thought i was making it up when i told him have more than twice that invested into this build. Adding up my receipts its a touch over $1500. That was starting with a new rifle, custom one off barrel, ptg bolt head and bolt parts, egw rail, rings, scope, magazines, and boyds stock. Its crazy how fast a "cheap" rifle build will nickel and dime you right up over the cost of just buying something. That said, the guy who owns the local range and i made a bet that my build will 100% out perform the 7.62x39 ruger american AND the 7.62x39 cz he has in stock. Just waiting on us both to have the time to let him shoot them head to head at his gun range. I've owned both, and i can tell you this is the most accurate 7.62x39 rifle i've ever seen. Then again it its headspaced tight, on the ammo i chose for it. So if using anything else, the bolt may or may not even close. That has a lot to do with why it shoots so nice. Really breaks my heart that i may not ever see cheap ammo again for it.
Anyway, sorry to hijack, sorta. To the OP, build it, you will love it. There is no better practice rifle than one that has actual recoil, noise, and feel of your main rifle. 22lr will never compare, and on game .223 fall way short of x39.
Keep in mind though, OEM savage magazines only hold 3 rounds. Currently im working on a conversion that fits the oem savage magwell, that will accept the SINGLE STACK ak magazines. 10 rounds. They are an odd duck but cheap and available. The savage axis feeds them flawlessly in my testing, just need a way to lock the magazines in. I know i can attach the mag to the oem mag much like i did in the "15 round .223 axis magazine" i did on here years ago. This time i really want to make it accept unmodified magazines. Keep in mind i do not have a CNC machine so its all bench grinder, drill press, and dremel tool lol. Ill make it happen though. Planning to use cheap airsoft ak trigger guard with mag catch to cut up and use only for the mag catch in my conversion. Anyway, the magazines look like this. NOTHING feeds 7.62x39 like a magazine designed only for it.
“Going to really miss picking 1000 rounds of 123g HP wolf for only $350 locally.”
1000rds for $350? When I first started building AKs, I was buying that same 1000rds for $89! But that seems like a lifetime ago now.
i still have an sks i picked up new in cosmoline for only $75 at a local gun show. I know how you feel.
Not sure if they still carry it, or if it's even been seen for a while, but Academy Outdoors used to carry some steel case hollow point x39 with the "Monarch" brand that was insanely accurate and very hot. I used it a lot for target practice and pig hunting. Those hollow points to the head dropped a lot of pigs in their tracks. I would buy those for $6/box which was cheaper than I could load for.
yup, repackaged/labeled russian import. I found barnaul 7.62x39 to be the most consistent. Some Monarch, wolf, and a few others where just repackaged Barnaul. When you find it, in the 123g HP its HOT but shoots great. Out of my 22" barrel using https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi to make myself a dope card (don't own a choro just yet) to get the computer to match reality i have 2660FPS entered. with all other data being correct.
$6 for a box is still $300 per 1000. Not really a huge savings at $0.30 cents/rd for steel cased, Berdan primed. Just last month I found Norma TAC 223, 30rd for 14.99. That’s $0.49 cents/rd...and I get the awesome Norma brass for reloading. I’m talking about the good times... $0.09 cents a round! At that, we didn’t care about the steel/Berdan primed cases.
Im very hopeful this intended embargo either WON’T happen or is cut short. The GOA is looking looking at it now. I imagine lawsuits & possible Federal Judge BLOCKS to happen. At least I hope so. I don’t think people quite understand how bad it can get if let standing. 7.62x39 will become UNUBTANIUM. And with an overnight smaller allotment, the laws of supply/demand will take hold. Only the wealthy will have it, as it will become the most expensive caliber. Same will apply for brass, and of course it will quickly spill into the entire market.
Waiting with bated breath.
Actually I thought it was Serbian ammo. It was hot though.
Huh, I wonder if the Monarch stuff is Serbian, if that will still be available. That would be cool.
You don't think there are some 7.62x39 hoarders who are secretly hoping the ban will go through? Heck, some probably already have their listings on GB ready to go. LOL
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