to be cheap. When I first started in this hobby I got 150 rounds of Selier and Beloit 223 ammo for I think $55. I knew it wouldn't be great but I just wanted the brass. Come to find out, the primers are crimped and that was the first ammo I ever reloaded. I found out after reloading some Winchester what the trouble was. About 1/4 of them didn't even fire. I had no way to remove the crimp at the time and didn't shoot all of them. I finally got a tool and the ones that were left I shot so I could remove the crimp and use the brass and the groups were horrible. 1 7/16", 2 3/8" and 1 1/4". I then shot just one group with the 69 grain Sierras and it was maybe a few thousandths of an inch less than 1/2". That is about what it usually shoots with the Sierra 69 grain. Lesson learned.
Lake City & other NATO marked is my preferred brass for 223 loads. They are all heavy crimped. Picked up a swaging die years ago, and use a Lee Challenger press, which was the first press I purchased many years ago, for that sole purpose.
Crimped primers aren’t a point of “cheap” ammo. And Sellier & Bellot is not even close to cheapest. That cry belongs to Wolf, TulAmmo, Silver/Brown bear..... Steel cases and Berdan primers is the hallmark of cheap.
When I first got my .223 I was thinking that I could have fun shooting without reloading due to all the cheap ammo out there. Then reality set in when 2" groups were not unusual. I realized that it was either spend a lot on match factory ammo or reload (again). So, now I reload :) FWIW, that initial cheap ammo was Federal bulk.
Next was bullets. Huge difference in accuracy. Again started with the inexpensive 55gn pills. Could maybe get close to 1MOA. Then went to Sierra Match Kings, 69gn. Much better. Also showed me my shooting skills needed to improve. :)
Then I found out the brass didn't last long. 4 or 5 reloads and primers would not stay in the cases. I thought it was the cheap stuff so I tried Hornady, Winchester and Lake City. Same thing. So, I could buy a ton of surplus stuff, or, buy Lapua. I am still on my first 100 Lapua cases. They have just been reloaded for the 17th time (rifle has over 3000 rounds through it). I still have another box of Lapua brass waiting (and no more crimped primer pockets to mess with).
Now days it is accurate enough to be 'boring'. When I do my part it shoots into less than 1/2MOA out to 300yd. Less than 1MOA at 600yd and a bit less than 2MOA at 1000yd (very calm day).
So, yes, what started out as a cheap rifle to be used with cheap ammo turned out to be a cheap rifle that ended up with a new stock, new scope and expensive reloads :)
^^^That is getting your money's worth. Quality usually pays off in the long run.
How often do you anneal?
Have never annealed a case, in any of my guns. Usually neck size only with the Lee collet dies. Every 5 reloads a full length resize is needed or the brass will sometimes stick in the chamber.
Now that statement is apt to start a long conversation Charlie. lolOriginally Posted by charlie b
Had a friend that passed on at 87 a few years ago that did the same. He had what was the most phenomenal rifle I have ever fired. Wicked accurate, it was a Hart barreled 6 PPC on a Remington target receiver, Jewel trigger and McMillan stock. Used to shoot it at Ben Avery in Arizona in winter...he and the rifle were a legend there.Have never annealed a case, in any of my guns. Usually neck size only
Yeah, I know it goes against the grain for some. Please note that 1/2MOA is not considered competition level accuracy for most precision shooters. It is where I am at and I am comfortable with it. Could I do better? Maybe, but, my shooting skills are not currently good enough to do much better.
When considering neck sizing I did do a bit of research with some precision and bench rest shooters. Both of those groups of folks NEED reliable extraction and chambering. PRS types need fast cycling of the bolt. Bench rest folks tend to quickly get off 5 or 10 rounds as fast as they can before the wind changes. To get that kind of reliable extraction you do need to full length resize, setting the dies at a very specific point for your chamber. Neck sizing alone will eventually result in a sticking case. That would really hurt in competition.
I do not compete and don't really mind if I have a failure to extract easily or eject 'cleanly' or even if I have to get out a range rod to tap a case out. So, I neck size most of the time. Not because it is more accurate but because I am a bit lazy. I don't need to use any case lube when neck sizing with the Lee dies. I shoot them until a case sticks a little, then full length resize the batch of cases.
As to annealing, it goes back to me being comfortable with my results. Yeah, if I did anneal I could probably eek out another tenth or so. Again, I am comfortable with my results so do not mess with annealing.
I reload some S&B and it hasn't been a problem. The factory loads were HOT and I had flattened primers. But reloading that brass I have had good results. I'm up to eight reloads (neck resize and small "bump" as needed) on 40 cases shot in a single shot T/C Contender carbine. 3,150 fps, 52 grain bullet loads for woodchucks. Full but not pushing it.
When these and my REM brass wear out I'll get some Peterson. Having great luck with their brass in other calibers and it's not too pricey.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
I think the brass is probably as good as anything except the higher priced premium brands. I noticed the weight is not as consistent as the Lapua but other than that I see nothing wrong with it after you get the primer pockets reamed. I think I will sort it according to weight and see what happens. I shot a few groups today and they were decent but not quite as good as the Lapua but it could have been me. I know neither myself or my setup is perfect. I think the factory loaded rounds were trash though. Never shot anything that grouped worse.
Charlie, I was going to anneal my Lapua brass but I think I will hold off now, at least for a few more firings. I have been neck sizing too with the Lee collet sizer. Fast and no case lube either.
The 6.5 Creedmoor S&B brass that I kept after firing their 140gr SP was some of the best I have encountered.....including Lapua.I reload some S&B and it hasn't been a problem.
They used to be $13 or so, suddenly cost $28. They shot almost as well as the 140 ELD out of my 12FV . The brass shows less pressure signs than the starlines small and large rifle with medium to hot loads of RL16 and 145 matchburners .
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks