Reply With QuoteI have an axis chambered in 22-250 that shoots the 50 & 53 gr. Vmax pretty well. I use H4895 for my powder. Can't say it's better than .5 MOA though.
My Axis is a pretty accurate gun with the right bullets. I can say with confidence it is a .5 MOA gun with the right bullet but I have not had nearly as much luck with the lighter ones. I am not going to say it will not shoot the lighter ones yet since I haven't done a lot of work with them yet but so far it is less than I expect. Are there any particular bullets in the say 50-55 grain range that have worked for you and also any particular powders that seem to work better?
Nearly forgot, it is a 223 Remington caliber.
I have an axis chambered in 22-250 that shoots the 50 & 53 gr. Vmax pretty well. I use H4895 for my powder. Can't say it's better than .5 MOA though.
The only 55gn bullets that I have tried are the cheap Hornady FMJBT bullets. They are close to MOA but not much better. Have not tried SMK's or other target grade light bullets.
Twist rate dictates the bullets that you should be looking into
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Is there some rule that tells you what weight is best for a twist rate and caliber?Originally Posted by Robinhood
Yes, however, if you plan on shooting the barrel you have, it is my humble opinion that is the one that will dictate your bullet purchase. I have a 7 twist I shoot 80 grains and higher. That doesn't help you. What twist do you have?
Bullet length not weight is what determines the twist rate needed. You may hear this weight bullet shoots better but what is being said is the length of this bullet works well in this twist. It has to do with the spin creating stability.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
1 in 9. I see Savage does recommend the 69 grain for a 1 in 9 twist but 1 in 7 they recommend that and heavier. I noticed the 22-250 they recommend a 40 grain bullet for both a 1 in 12 and 1 in 9 twist. Interesting there would be that much variation in recommendations between 22 calibers.
"Bullet length not weight is what determines the twist rate needed. You may hear this weight bullet shoots better but what is being said is the length of this bullet works well in this twist. It has to do with the spin creating stability"
I believe that. The Hornady 68 grain shot horribly in both the Axis and Remington. I forget the exact measurement but it is definitely longer than the Sierra. Both the Axis and Remington shoot the 77 grain Sierra ever so slightly better than the 69 grain Sierra and a 77 grain is not supposed to work with the 1 in 9 twist. There is not enough difference between the two I would even make the statement, more likely believing it was operator error on my part but Charlie B said the 77 shoots the best for him too so I think it does work just a slight bit better.
What is your powder, charge weight and max deviation in weight with the 77?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
22.8 of Benchmark. You mean how much difference in powder weight? I get it as close as I can on a beam scale, trickle it up the last tenth grain or so. Unless you mean something else like if I have used different powder charges, like 22.5, 22.8, 23 to see what worked best. I have only used the 22.8 charge so far.
For the .223....
According to Sierra at least 1-10 twist for the 69gn SMK bullets. 1-8 twist for the 77SMK. Don't know why the 77gn works so well in my Axis, but, it does. Could be that shooting it from the 16" (or shorter) barrel of the typical AR does not give it the extra velocity that I get from the 22" barrel. Mine exit at 2850fps.
Twist rate for the 55gn bullets is more like 1-12 if you look at the early AR15/M16.
Except for some very specific aerodynamic issues, over stabilizing a bullet is not 'harmful' until you get to very high velocities with thin jacket bullets.
FWIW, the Hornady 68gn HPBT match bullet was not very accurate at all in my rifle. Others have had the same experience. Nosler 69 and 77gn bullets were good, probably 0.1 or 0.2 worse than the SMK's. The 75 ELD was also a good bullet.
Hornady makes a 52gn ELD and 55gn VMax that I would try if I wanted a lighter bullet. Or the SMK.
I suspect this is your issue. You really need to consider multiple charges in a load workup. Then reprove it. Also have you ever thrown a charge and after you pour it into the case, dumped it back into the pan and reweighed it? Just to see if everything is repeating.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I had just a few 52 grain Sierras left but didn't try them in the Axis. I normally save those for the 22-250. I only had enough for 1 group and tried them in the Remington. They shot well, not quite as good as the 69 and 77 grain but pretty good. There was a Speer bullet that worked pretty well in the Remington too but I can't remember what it was called but I think it was 52 grain. I had them all used up before I got the Axis. It would be nice if more bullets were available, along with powder and primers.
I am fighting the same issue. I have a load that works well in a 223 Handi rifle with a 1 in 12 twist. It uses a 36 gr Varmint Grenade. My 1 in 9 223 Axis shoots them into a pattern that is over twice the size. The Axis does shoot Rem 55 gr fmjs into 3/4" easily and repeteably. Now I just need to find a lead free bullet that matches the length of the Rem fmj. California is making me stick to lead free for hunting.
I need to pull a Rem Fmj bullet and compare it to the lead free offerings. DR
My best
I must be a lucky one because i have found a ton of light bullet loads that shoot well. Many hovering around 0.5 some better. The 40gr vmax shoots great,if you want heavier, the 53 Vmax is money. Varmageddon 40s shoot well too. Great results with the nosler BT lead free 35s. H335/wc844, tac, 4198, 748 the combinations are nearly endless. I have the same gun, sporter barrel 1:9. I've been very fortunate with this gun, for the price it shoots outstanding. My go to are 40 vmax and the 53s once the wind kicks up. I prefer blue dot powder but that is a whole different thread for sure. I shoot thousands of these a year at varmints. I'm confident in taking 250-300 yd shots at squirrels with these loads, if im reading the wind correctly and range estimate is good. I haven't stretched it past 350-400, that's not what i bought it for. So cant help there. PM me if you would like, i can look up actual load data, powder, etc to get you going. I have it all logged,but its out in shop! Good luck, im confident you will find an accurate load with a lighter bullet
22.8 grains of Benchmark is well below the recommended minimum load for a 53 grain bullet. Try the 53 V-Max and don't be afraid to put some oomph behind it. I load them with 26 grains of H4895 and easily get sub 1/2" groups.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
That was a 77 grain bullet.
243winxb, How much of the bullet was in the case at 2.32" OAL? I was afraid to seat the light bullets out that far for fear they wouldn't have enough support but from your groups it obviously works.
Part # 39560 is for 250 bullet pack. A box of 100 bullets has part # 39526
243Winxb, would you know the distance to the lands on that bullet? I got some 55 grain Speer today and seating the bullet to the same OAL length as the Berger probably would not be the same. I know seating them to the same distance to the lands probably would be better but with 2 different bullets it might not mean anything but it would be a place to start.
No.
Noslers BTLF 50 gr is just about as close to the same length as the 55 gr Rem fmj as I am going to find! If I can get that kind of accuracy from them, I will be happy. That should be fine for coyotes and an ocasional ground squirrel! Its nice that Nosler advertises the bulets length. DR
I tried some 55 grain Speer TNT bullets, first seated at 2.32" and it was not great. Not a total disaster but not what I like. I tried at 2.25" OAL and it seemed better but still not anything to brag about. With those bullets I would say it is about a 7/8-1" gun. The Remington (which is basically a Marlin X-7, as I am sure most of you know) shots them about 5/8"-3/4". The Remington shoots everything slightly better. With the preferred bullets they are very close but they cost quite a bit more money too.
It still amazes me how a bullet can be that far off the lands and shoot decently. Evidently getting everything close to the lands is not always the way to go, not that it was even close at 2.32" but you could damn neart throw a cat between the bullet and the lands at 2.25".
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