Elftmann Savage Trigger

[GrenGuy]

I have considered, and may yet, add a shim to the sear shelf, to reduce the height to about .014”. We have done this in the past, successfully, with older stock triggers. When done successfully, it actually works better than a rinky dink screw sticking up through the sear.

[Dave Hoback]

Doing that is just asking for an accidental discharge. Rinky dink screw sticking up through the ??… trigger I think you meant, as the Sear simply rides overtop the screw. Actually a screw used to raise or lower the Sear shelf of the trigger is a proven concept. Especially since all aftermarket triggers, with the exception of Jard, use the factory Sear. The Savage factory Sears are inconsistent to say the least. One may respond to .018” shelf belt height, where as another may need .020” for a safe purchase.

It’s interesting the case you continue making for this trigger, despite it’s many shortcomings. Human nature is such a peculiar thing. We feel the need to justify the cost of purchases we’ve made. I’m not singling out one person. We all do this at one time or another.

[GrenGuy]

This is the “COMPETITIVE SHOOTING” Forum. As I said in post #1 of My thread, My interest in the Elftmann trigger is to find a trigger that fills My needs for Bench Rest Competition. We assure safety by observing “Cold Range” protocol. That means no bolts installed until the RSO gives the command “install bolts”, after all muzzles are pointed at the berm. Triggers for this purpose don’t rely on safeties or anything else to insure a safe range. Just the Cold Range Protocol. The next command is “Commence Firing”. An Unintended Discharge merely means you will likely miss your POA, or DQ. Nothing unsafe. My interest in this trigger does not apply to “Any Other Form Of Shooting”. Work on any trigger at your own risk.


Yes, I meant the trigger, not the sear, My Girl Friend had the radio blaring.

I have been using this Elftmann Trigger in a 35# Heavy Gun, and it performs about as well as anything else I have used, in that application. Which is the SSS Competition, RB Sav II, Jard 1 & Current Jard (both back in the box on a shelf), and of course all of the factory triggers Savage has offered.

I feel triggers and fire control has Savage Bench Rest competitors at a considerable disadvantage. Like LoneWolf and other competitors who used to post here, I find Myself drifting in another direction.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, obviously for high level competition, ultimately a custom is the way people go. It’s like that for many sports though. People like custom gear for competition. Simple as that. However, I believe many people out there greatly overestimate their own prowess. Like the avid Golf player who spends several thousand $$ to have a set of custom clubs made fir their “club level” of play. Not going to improve their score, but sure makes ‘em feel better & look more legit. The same holds true for shooting sports; probably over other sports/hobbies. Yet there are guys like Fuj’ showing everyone what a Savage can do in competition. (And never thinking of himself as one of the Elite level shooters on this Earth.

Also: While a good trigger can help a person’s accuracy to a point, there is a level of diminishing returns.

[GrenGuy]

As for Myself, I have read every post Fuj has typed, that I can find, and greatly appreciated every one of them. His 2 7mm wildcats seem very promising, and I wish them great success. At the moment, 6mm’s are leading the organizations that I participate in, but that could change in a heartbeat. In My experience in IBS and GBA, I have never encountered anyone who “thought of himself as one of the ELETE LEVEL shooters on the earth”. Not even the top shooters in the endeavor. It is a very humbling sport. Especially for a lowly Savage shooter. I, and others, appreciate everything guys like Fuj shares that helps us get better. In fact, I hope to run into Fuj at Harry Jones or Whitehorse sometime when He decides to shoot Long Range IBS or GBA. One would think those willing to go up against the worlds best with a Savage, might be appreciated on this site, rather than maligned. Even if it’s not very smart.

If there is a Savage trigger that has reached the level of diminishing returns, I have yet to see it.

[Dave Hoback]

No one was being critical of Gary. Read my post again. My comment was in admiration of his skill. And continuing to compete with Savage rifles. It’s inspiring.

But somehow I think you already knew what I meant & your post in fact had an ulterior motive.

[Robinhood]

I believe many people out there greatly overestimate their own prowess. Like the avid Golf player who spends several thousand $$ to have a set of custom clubs made fir their “club level” of play. Not going to improve their score, but sure makes ‘em feel better & look more legit.

I agree. The internet is full of internet experts that pretend to be experts when actually, very little to none of their knowledge was earned but was plagiarized. What is wrong with people.

[GrenGuy]

I agree. The internet is full of internet experts that pretend to be experts when actually, very little to none of their knowledge was earned but was plagiarized. What is wrong with people.

Present company excluded, We hope ! LOL

[GrenGuy]

WeeHooker, those of Us interested in the Elftmann Trigger are few out here. Please let Us know Your future results and if it meets Your expectations. I have never been able to get the Elftmann to bump fire, even with the spring and piston removed (not recommending this). It has shown to be very safe.

[charlie b]

Same here.

[Robinhood]

Present company excluded, We hope ! LOL

Obviously I was referring to myself!

[Fuj']

I wish I could comment on the Elfman but I can't. I chased all the brands but this one,
and put the stock red blade back in. I did keep the heavier Timney's for other projects.
I guess maybe it's just that the stock trigger works so well for me in a heavy gun. I just
wish I would have put that money elsewhere, but you never know till you try something.
I did not post up the Pa, Tack Driver Lite match yet but of the 48 shooters, I was in the
top 10 early on then the winds struck and struck hard. Two of my 5 relays were a complete
disaster with shots in the 8 and 7 rings. Wind was some of the worst I've seen. I did manage
a 28 out of 48.....First relay, I was shooting 7/8th" groups with that stock trigger in light wind.
One thing about triggers.....Even a 2 ounce Jewel sucks in heavy wind !! Note.....2 of the
range windsocks are rated for 17 mph. After the first relay, they were stretched straight out
and switching directions frantically. The poles they were mounted on were leaning !!!!

[WeeHooker]

Will do, Sir. Unfortunately, I have not made it to the range to test/shoot. However, the trigger does seem to be very consistent ( with spring change and set at 13 oz ). It also passes bump testing here just fine. As I think I eluded too in my last post, I suspect it will work fine for my informal bench shooting to 300 yds. I'm more disappointed in the failure of initial quality, customer service and the shoe design than actual function. I'll post back here after I get a chance to run it a bit. Tight groups!

[GrenGuy]

Fuj, its always good to hear of Your shooting experiences and see the results of Your extensive talent. You and I are competing in different disciplines, but We both appreciate the need for an acceptable trigger, which is a very personal thing. I could make Myself use the Red Blade, but it would be difficult to get it out of My head that it’s really not what I want. Yes, bad conditions is a perfect example of where a good trigger is desirable. One way to approach it is, “pick” Your shots when the wind flags drop, which may only be for a couple of seconds, chamber the round, get on target, and touch it off without disturbing the rifle, before the cold, switching winds return and blow Your hat off. I think as simple as the Elftmann design is, they could provide the solution if they really tried. But when I spoke with them about what I was doing, they were very apprehensive. I guess that is understandable when You consider that it was the trigger that put remington out of business. I will continue the search, and appreciate any help along the way. Thanks for Your input.

[GrenGuy]

WeeHooker, I suspect You may be the victim of post covid quality deterioration?? Seems nothing is as good as it was before covid. The only two things I can imagine could cause the condition You described, is the bearing or the condition of the sear blade. There could have been foreign material in the sealed bearing. This is a main feature of the trigger, and certainly should have been corrected when You sent it back, if it was the problem. But every Savage trigger I have seen needed the sear blade “honed”. They were all rough as a cob. Could be Your source of trouble? As simple as the Elftmann Trigger is, there isn’t much that can go wrong. Tight Groups To You Too !

edit: as for the shoe design, I prefer to use the trigger without the use of the shoe at all. That’s a simple solution to that. But that’s just Me.

[Dave Hoback]

I wish I could comment on the Elfman but I can't. I chased all the brands but this one,
and put the stock red blade back in. I did keep the heavier Timney's for other projects.
I guess maybe it's just that the stock trigger works so well for me in a heavy gun. I just
wish I would have put that money elsewhere, but you never know till you try something.
I did not post up the Pa, Tack Driver Lite match yet but of the 48 shooters, I was in the
top 10 early on then the winds struck and struck hard. Two of my 5 relays were a complete
disaster with shots in the 8 and 7 rings. Wind was some of the worst I've seen. I did manage
a 28 out of 48.....First relay, I was shooting 7/8th" groups with that stock trigger in light wind.
One thing about triggers.....Even a 2 ounce Jewel sucks in heavy wind !! Note.....2 of the
range windsocks are rated for 17 mph. After the first relay, they were stretched straight out
and switching directions frantically. The poles they were mounted on were leaning !!!!

Was waiting to hear about that Fuj’. Wow..Brutal wind. And, yeah, the wind doesn’t care WHAT trigger is used; it really does make things a game of “chance” over skill. Still, sounds like you did well all things considered. More importantly, did you enjoy yourself regardless? I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment on aftermarket triggers. Luckily, because trigger setup was the first thing I learned over 2 decades ago, the attitude of modify over buy really stuck with me. So I at least haven’t wasted money chasing the “perfect” aftermarket trigger. Instead, I’ve wasted that money on other items, LOL!

[Fuj']

More importantly, did you enjoy yourself regardless?

Mixed feelings on it. I shot my short game rifle that I did not intend to. The SA284 wildcat
I had planned on is still not finished, and was being built for this particular match, knowing
that the conditions at this particular range can get rough. It's kinda like bowling with a 16lb.
ball to knock the pins down, but tournament day comes and there is only a 12 lb, ball to work
with. It is what it is and ya' gotta' keep steppin'.....

[charlie b]

Sorry to hear Fuj, but, glad you started out well.

I'd consider 7's and 8's to be a great day in the wind. :)

[Dave Hoback]

Mixed feelings on it. I shot my short game rifle that I did not intend to. The SA284 wildcat
I had planned on is still not finished, and was being built for this particular match, knowing
that the conditions at this particular range can get rough. It's kinda like bowling with a 16lb.
ball to knock the pins down, but tournament day comes and there is only a 12 lb, ball to work
with. It is what it is and ya' gotta' keep steppin'.....

Sorry for that my friend... I know you were excited about your new wildcat 284. I was looking forward to seeing its use. BTW, what’s the problem with it? Not being ready I mean?

[Fuj']

Sorry for that my friend... I know you were excited about your new wildcat 284. I was looking forward to seeing its use. BTW, what’s the problem with it? Not being ready I mean?

New 3 groove Lilja needs chambered and crowned. I pulled the Brux as it had it's day and wanted
to start fresh for the season.....My lathe is down for bearing replacements. Gunsmith buddy of mine
closed shop to relocate, and his lathe is still not wired up. The guy that bought his old lathe
and promised to help out, backed out at the last minute for reasons unknown. He's on my sh1t list.
and knows it. My SA284 shoots. I've won with it in Unlimited UBR and made AAA at Ridgway's VBR
match first time out and in bad weather.....I just need some patience, and it is what it is.

As for triggers ?? I put a Timney 10 ounce in a CZ-457 22lr. It was the simplest install I have ever
done on any rifle.

[GrenGuy]

Fuj, I’m thinking Your SA284 could be competitive out to 600 yards. Yes or No ?

Maybe if You installed an Elftmann Trigger modified to 8 ounces You could put all of those SA284’s in the x ring ??

Whada Ya Think !!!

[Fuj']

Fuj, I’m thinking Your SA284 could be competitive out to 600 yards. Yes or No ?

Maybe if You installed an Elftmann Trigger modified to 8 ounces You could put all of those SA284’s in the x ring ??

Whada Ya Think !!!

Never pursued long range paper, but shot a lot of steel out to a thousand. Best group out of the SA284 with
183 gr SMK's is .670" in dead calm wind at 500 yards with the stock trigger at 15 ounces, 22 lb rifle, 30" Brux.
Going to try a Lilja this time around.

What's the X-Ring size at 600, and rifle limits ?? I have friends that shoot down in your region and over in
Williamsport that always bug me about it. You may have met Shelly and Steve Brennen. For the time being
I'm more of a short range score shooter favoring UBR 100, 200, and 300.

[GrenGuy]

Fuj, the x ring in IBS 600yd is 1.180” (My measurement, not offical). With Your.284, You “could”shoot a 1.464” group and score a 50-5x. As You know, the AGG is everything in competition. But Your Wildcat could be the next new thing. Would love to see what it can do in a 600yd. Match. Will be watching You, regardless.

Shelly and Steve sound familiar, but I can’t place them at the moment. You may have run into Fred and Jim Cali? They are more up Your way, and they shoot various venues.

Saw Your Anderson Creek post. Fun stuff Huh !!!

edit: IBS & GBA Light Gun is 17#’s. Heavy Gun is Unlimited.

edit: Fuj, it turns out we have at least one shooting friend in common. Jack Balon! Most people in this game are great folks, and Jack is one of the best. He has helped Me out immensely. Not to mention, He is one fantastic competitor. When You run into the bugman, tell Him “hello” from the Rat Rifle!
You have to be beaming with pride over that Grandson of Yours !!!

[Scttschnd]

I have an Elftman trigger for my Axis II Precision, got light primer hits with it. Would not fire. Put the OEM trigger back in and it works. Was not happy with this so it the bag in the drawer it sits.

[Dave Hoback]

I have an Elftman trigger for my Axis II Precision, got light primer hits with it. Would not fire. Put the OEM trigger back in and it works. Was not happy with this so it the bag in the drawer it sits.

Yes, we had discussed your situation before Scott. Look, I’m not a fan of the Elftmann personally, but your situation is due to your limited understanding of the trigger function. The Sear is binding on the trigger, which is slowing its travel. It’s likely due to too little overtravel, as was mentioned. That’s all. This is easily fixed, again, with expert knowledge of trigger/Sear function. I’m sorry it hasn’t worked for you. I still prefer my modified Accutriggers over anything else.

Edit: one other thing I realized, people don’t like buying products only to find things need to be modified. It’s not expected in these times. But understand, while we have the luxury of Prefit barrel & such, Savages are not AR15’s or Glocks! Things don’t always go perfectly and may need a bit of fitting or modification. You know, years ago when I started building 1911’s, an aftermarket Trigger, Sear, Disconnector & Hammer are purchased, then each piece would need hand fit to function correctly. So ya have to spend like $200 in parts, and then either know how to or pay a Gunsmith to install the parts. There were virtually no Prefit parts for the 1911 years ago. I just think sometimes it’s expectations which are the problem.