I went to the gunsmithing FAQ section trying to understand the barrel shank thing and frankly I am still a little confused... Forgive me; I am new here!
I do understand how to tell the difference between the standard shank and the large shank by looking at the barrel nut...
But, am I to understand that there are 4 different types of current production Savage 110 receivers? That is to say, a long and short action with the large shank threads and a long and short action with the standard type threads?
Thank you for your help understanding this.
Gene
Yes, For some stupid reason, some retard at Savage decided to call all New Savage short action rifles 110's. Years ago, all Savage centerfire bolt action rifles were built on a 110 Long actions, the short action cartridges just had a spacer installed into the magazine box along with an extended baffle on the bolt to reduce the bolt travel.
Only the WSM short action cartridges, and Model 12 Target actions come with Large shank barrels. Everything else is Small shank.
Thank you neighbor!!!
I have been looking at the Savage 110 Precision with the large shank and in 300 Win Mag as a possible solution to my getting the kind of pistol gripped tactical stock that I want (since i cant seem to find one in long action with the right DBM). I would then just swap in the 280 Ackley Improved barrel (and the bolt head that it needs) and be done. But if I can't do that for some unknown reason, I would swap in a 7mm Rem Mag barrel which uses the same mag and bolt head so I should not have any issues. That is my second choice of caliber. But the 280 Ackley is much cheaper to reload (since it can be made from old 30-06 brass and I have a lot of it) and it has almost the same ballistics as the 7mm Rem Mag.
Last edited by geneackley; 03-04-2021 at 02:53 AM. Reason: spelling
You're not quite 100% correct there TX.Originally Posted by Txhillbilly
From the get go (1958) through 1988 or 89 the Savage 110 was manufactured in both long and short action versions ( Gen 1 short action with 4.522" screw spacing). From 1989 thru the end of 1997 production everything was built on long actions. In 1998 the Gen 2 short-action (4.275" screw spacing) was introduced and remained in production through late 2007 - early 2008.
In 2005 the current Gen 3 center feed short-action (4.40" screw spacing) was introduced and slowly phased in over the course of the next three years with rifles being chamberedd in .204 Ruger and .223 Rem. being the last to be updated in late 2007/early 2008.
So the only years that all 110's were long actions were 1989-1997.
The large shank came into existence in 2000 or 2001 when Savage started offering the WSM and RSAUM cartridges as factory chamberings, and until the launch of the Target series models in 2008 the only rifles that came with a large shank barrel were chambered in those cartridges (and the 10ML muzzleloaders).
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Wait a minit, wait a minit till i find a pencil with a point on it.
I wanna write all this down and put it some place.
Well, I was wrong on a few points.
Well, even though I started out with every intention of building or buying a Savage rifle, the facts are that the "Savage Stars" just would not quite align for me.
One of the main limiting factors was the apparent lack of suitable tactical stocks in my price range (and of my taste like the KRG BRAVO) for the long action Savage platform that I desired.
However, getting to finally chat on the phone with my fellow Texan and neighbor Txhillbilly gave me some insights into my way forward. He revealed to me that there were such things as rifle actions in the REMINGTON 700 foot print - but that would also accept the Savage pre-fit style barrels!!! This was news to me since I know next to nothing about the Savage rifle world (I have been an AR guy for decades)!!
Upon further chatting Txhillbilly, he told me about the Nucleus Actions. He owns one. I was enthused to find out not only how well they were made and how smooth and strong they were, but that because they were of the aforementioned Remington 700 foot print, it had DOZENS of different stocks that I could go with - as well as being able to change out a barrel in minutes at home just like on a Savage- !!!!.
When I also found out these were TOROIDAL three lugged MAUSER STYLE control feed actions, I about passed out for joy since I have never been a big fan of push feed nor looked forward to Savage's notorious historically weak extraction issues.
Furthermore, the Nucleus Mauser bolt can also have its head replaced to accomodate various calibers... too cool.
So upon listening to Tex, I did my own research overnight and finally "pulled the trigger" on a Nucleus. Its just way too impressive to pass up!!!
Of course at 1000 dollars its more than many complete Savage rifles by itself.... but I get the feeling its really worth it. Especially if I get that controlled Mauser feed I love so much (and thought I would have to give up with a Savage)!!!
Txhillbilly also recomended Xcaliber Barrels to me since I really wanted 5R rifling. So I got on there today and I ordered a 24 inch heavy target barrel, in 416R stainless, threaded muzzle, and 280 Ackley Improved chambering for 470 bucks. Bad thing is that it will take 4 months to get here.... bummer.
I may break down and get a cheap 7mm Rem Mag barrel and a magnum bolt face for the Nucleus to enjoy the gun in the mean time till the 280 Ackley gets here...
Also gonna order the KRG stock from Northlandshooterssupply; They have them in stock. Then I just need a good Remington 700 compatible trigger and I should be set. Trigger Tech comes highly recommended by Tex... I have one in my Bergara so I may do that one. I also need mag or two also, of course.
Thanks to everyone for your help, especially Txhillbilly.
Now its just a waiting game....
Again Thanks
Good evening.
Gene
I dunno if I would have recommended a Nucleus action. Like TXhillbiilly I got in on the pre-order for them saving me a couple hundred bucks. However, unlike the one he received mine was plagued with the light firing pin strike issue associated with the original 16# FP spring. So after waiting almost a year to get my action it was a "dud" out of the box. After hundreds of complaints from buyers experiencing the same issue they sent out a slightly heavier FP spring (18 or 19# IIRC). For some this solved the issue, for others it didn't - naturally I was one of the latter. So then they came up with a 25# FP spring, which finally solved my FTF issues, but at the same time it made the bolt lift as heavy as a factory Savage action.
I like the overall design and function of the Nucleus action, but I ponied up the extra money to get a smoother action with a lighter bolt lift w/o having to send it off to be worked over by a gunsmith - exactly what it was advertised to be. So the fact that it didn't live up to that left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, and ARC's initial refusal to admit there was a problem and reluctance to address it for months despite the number of owners experiencing the issue taught me their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.
The whole experience left me so turned off to that rifle that I probably haven't put 100 rounds through it once it was finally sorted out and actually going bang when I pull the trigger every time. In fact, I never even finished load development for it. Hoping the new stock arriving today will rekindle my interest in it some as right now its little more than an expensive space-taker-upper in my safe.
I can however highly recommend the Trigger Tech triggers. I have their Special in my Nucleus as well as a Diamond in an AR15 and both are very nice (one in the AR15 replaced a Geissele SSA-E trigger that I was never all that happy with).
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
That's too bad about your Nuke Jim, I have 2 of them and both are wearing the 16# springs. They go click-bang every time. One of them is a Gen 1.2 and the other is a Gen 2.0
TX, you owe it to yourself to at least try the 16# spring and see if it works for you. It really does transform the feel of the action for only $10. I would also highly recommend TriggerTech. I have the TT Primary in mine and with the 16# spring I can get them down to a 16oz pull. I also have several of the ARC mags and they work exceptionally well with the Nuke.
The other excellent receiver option is a Bighorn Origin. Still has CRF, mechanical ejection, and swappable bolt heads. I have one of them as well. It's actually about 1lb lighter on the bolt lift, but the Nuke is smoother and lighter when closing. I swear that sometimes it feels like the Nuke will almost close itself.
Enjoy your new rifles guys!!!
https://imgur.com/S43zp7E
https://imgur.com/oUxiKfM
For those interested in current production.......
If I missed something let me know and I will add it.
Small Tenon
Short Action Top Bolt Release
Short Action Bottom Bolt Release
Long Action Top Bolt Release
Long Action Bottom Bolt release
Large Tenon
Short Action Single Shot Target Top Bolt Release
Short Action Repeater Top bolt Release Short Mag
Short Action Repeater Target Top Bolt Release
Long Action Repeater Target Top Bolt Release
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
So have the Nucleus receiver issues finally been all sorted out and now work reliably??? I am getting a Gen 2 current issue ( I believe )...
Thanks
With the 25# spring nobody is complaining of light primer strikes anymore. But I think the failures with the original 16# are the minority of users. ARC has 3 different springs you can buy, 16#/19#/25#. It will come with the 25 and you can buy the others for cheap. I would *highly* recommend you try the 16 or 19. It's quite a bit of difference on the bolt lift and if it works for you...then great!
I have an origin and a TL3, and they are both pretty nice! The TL3 has a TT Diamond and the Origin has a TT Special. They are my first two TT triggers and i like em a lot!
My Nucleus action is one of the first ones that was produced, and LH at that. I have never had a single issue with it, and it still has the original 16# spring in it. I have no idea why guy's were having light firing pin strikes with their Nucleus action's because mine has never missed a beat over the 800 rounds that I've shot out of it.
The Shilen DGR action I have is also a very good action, but it uses the same bolt head as a Savage, so it can have the same issues as a savage does when it comes to extraction & ejection. Yes, these issues are easily fixed, but you shouldn't have to deal with them on a $1k custom action.
I'll happily suggest a Nucleus action to guy's wanting a good custom action. Ted has fixed any issues that the original Nucleus owner's had with the new Nucleus 2.0 version from what I hear.
I've never seen or used a Bighorn Origin action. From what I've heard, they are good actions.
And I highly recommend Trigger Tech trigger's. I have a Special on my Shilen DGR action, and a Diamond on my Nucleus action. They are some of the best trigger's that I've owned.
I will do that. Thanks for the advice. I just ordered it Friday but I have yet to hear back from them.... Supposedly I will get an email to involve my local FFL... They did however take my money... I checked my bank statement online.
I have already decided to go triggertech! Thanks.
Like I have mentioned elsewhere, I know next to nothing about Savages and these bolt guns. But it hasn't taken me long to figure out that a remington footprint is vital to have a decent selection of stocks and a pre-fit barrel is fundamental to be able to swap them out easily at home... And I always knew that mauser style controlled feed beats push feed.... Especially in a Savage.... So when Txhillbillly told me about the Nucleus, it just made too much sense.
The swappable bolt head on a mauser three lugged toroidal Bolt was also a wonderful extra selling point for me. I could swap calibers in minutes.
So, SOLD!!! Now I just need to hear back from American Rifle Company to see exactly when and how it gets to me.
Just had a good chat with the fine folks at McMillan. They have given up inlets for Savage. At the end they were requiring customers to send them their barreled action because of all the changes. He said there is a desire for a real stock for their new ultralight whatever model they have now with the carbon wrapped barrel. They looked into it but after speaking with Savage engineers they have 14 changes, all undocumented, to that rifle alone. So, there won’t be a stock for that rifle other than the factory noodle at least from the folks in AZ.
I have concluded that one needs to forget the Savage footprint for anything that isn't a factory produced rifle made by Savage!!!! Period. Life is easier that way.
I've never ben a very big fan of McMillan stocks. Their fiberglass stocks always felt cheap, and their paint jobs look like a 3rd grade art class painted them. Manners makes a much better stock, IMO.
I believe the Savage upper management team is ruining the Savage brand by making all the unwanted / unnecessary changes to the 10 / 110 series. They seem to be trying to keep making changes in order to stop consumer's from being able to modify or assemble their own rifles based on a Savage action.
It will end up costing Savage a lot of future sales in the process.
I wouldn't say that. I've got 8 or 9 Savage based rifles in my safes, as well as have assembled close to a dozen more for friend's and family over the years. While the Aftermarket doesn't support Savage rifles as good as the Remington 700, there are still plenty of choices that will suit the majority of shooter's.
I've got several Savage semi-custom builds that shoot as good if not better than my Custom action builds that cost 2-3 times as much. They just don't look as good.
McMillan was just blowing smoke up your keister to cover the fact they just don't want to mess with Savage's anymore. There's nothing "unique" about the 110 Ultralight compared to other current 110's that have been produced in recent years. Can't really blame them though for not wanting to mess with Savage's because even absent of the claimed "new" changes, Savage has made so many changes over the years that there are just too many variable to contend with. Combine that with the fact that the vast majority of owners have no clue what they have so they have no clue what they need to specify when ordering.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
I had the complete opposite with Manners. I needed a stock with adjustable LOP for growing kids with a Borden inlet which is a Remclone. Real basic stuff. Manners told me to call a gunsmith flat out. Kelly McMillan took my call personally and had his people build it. I’m a faithful customer.
Glad to read you have the pulse there at McMillan.
So a Nucleus Action was ordered last Saturday;
-By the way, I still haven't heard back from American Rifle Company - A simple email acknowledging the order would have sufficed...but... - Oh well!!.
An Xcaliber, Savage compatible standard shank, 24 inch, 416R, 1:8 twist, 5R target barrel was ordered Sunday;
Barrel nut and wrench were ordered Sunday as well as some Redding dies from Brownells;
A KRG Bravo stock was ordered Monday;
A 280 Ackley specific set of headspace gauges were ordered today;
A TriggerTech SPECIAL trigger and a nucleus specific action wrench were just ordered tonight;
I think that all I need now is a few mags and a muzzle device and I will be set!!!
I will also need patience for the 5 months that I have to wait for my barrel in order to finish this project...
Thank you for your help and good advice.
Gene
Haven't been on here for a while Gene. I have a Gen 1.0 Nucleus, thinking like you that more options are out there for stocks and configuration changes in a 700 platform but like the barrel swap options for a Savage tenon.
I also got a 280 AI barrel. Ended up going with a Bell & Carlson M40 stock for now. Magpul magazine plate and magazines, timney trigger.
It is together but I have not been able to get out and test it and see how it does for FP strikes. Bolt movement is smooth and lockup is crisp. I ordered the tool and more springs just in case it has the weak FP strike issue. I did clean off the oil -reading on LRH that any oil in the FP mechanism actuall makes the strike weaker. Hope your project works out - Gen 2.0? right?
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