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Here are some pictures. If there’s a more specific picture that would be helpful, let me know.
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I have run into a whole line of frustrations with this stock, so I just want some outside perspective. I've had a Boyd's classic stock on my .338-06 for two years with maybe 250 rounds through it. I had the action out of the stock the other day and when I went to put it back together I had the action screws protruding into the action and binding up my bolt. Thought it was weird so i kept trying to figure out what was going on with it, as it has never done this before. That's when I discovered the crack in the stock in the high part between the recoil lug and the magazine well, and about 1/2" deep. It is out of Boyd's warranty frame as well as it was one of their Rapid Fire discounted stocks due to a ding in the comb when I bought it. The best they can do for me is a 10% coupon code on a new stock.
This stock already has crossbolts installed when I bought it. I had bedded it before i shot it at all with ProBed 2000. What are my options here? I have been doing some research into this and am not coming up with any good suggestions besides injecting Acraglass into the crack and clamping it closed. My initial thought on this was to carve out the crack a bit or drill a series of holes along it, to inject epoxy into and then pillar bed over the top of it once it was cured. Any thoughts? I would appreciate any help you guys can provide. I'll try to get some pictures posted later.
Here are some pictures. If there’s a more specific picture that would be helpful, let me know.
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This is the main reason I quit buying Boyd's stocks. There is just not a lot of meat left once everything is milled out. Mine always seem to break around the rear action bolt though. You can mill/dremel a slot across the stock and epoxy a metal bar in there to hold it together. Some people have drilled holes all the way through and sunk bolts in...then cover the holes. I don't think trying to glue that crack will solve your problems.
So, no pillars? That's the root of the problem. Screws used directly on laminates will force the laminations apart. Think of it as screwing into the end grain of plywood. That is why they have cross bolts at the key structural points.
If you want to fix this I would add pillars and epoxy the crack at the same time. Use thinned epoxy injected in the crack, insert the pillars and clamp it up to let everything cure. If you wanted to be more detailed on this then find some way to drill a stop hole at the end of the crack before the glue up. A bit difficult with where it is.
Get a piece of brass all-thread (Brownell's) and drill & thread it - avoiding the stock bolt hole - in with the stock (lightly and padded but tightly) clamped. Cut & file the ends flush with the stock. (You'll just have a 5/32" brass "dot" on either side like a cross-bolt). Then hit the front and back of the crack with thin CA glue.
I epoxied knurled aluminum pillars in mine for good purchase of the bedding compound. Holding up so far.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
Pillars and new bedding would most likely fix it.
Originally Posted by charlie b
Yup! wood and plastic compress. The material has to go somewhere. Pillars do not compress.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Thank you for the suggestions! Keep them coming if there are any more ideas. You all have gave me some ideas that I’m going to try. At this point it can’t hurt anything!
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I agree
route the crack before bedding.I am not sure clamping the stock to close crack would help if there is a cross bolt already in the stock at the same area.
I would install pillars first ( allow to cure) then get rid of some of the old bedding material, route the crack and bed again filling the crack with bedding material.
I seldom do pillars and bedding at the same time--too much to keep up with at one time for me.
Jack
I was always taught that cracked wood should be glued up as is. Stop hole drilled at end of crack to prevent further propagation. The idea is that the cracked wood gives a lot more surface area for the glue to work on. And a tighter fitting glue joint is stronger than a 'wider' joint that depends on the strength of the glue.
I have glued back together several broken gun stocks this way and they have all survived in tact. Well, except one. When the owner broke it again it broke in a different spot. I think he would get mad when he missed a bird and swing the shotgun against a tree.
When you are asking gunsmiths about wood and glue you are getting out of their expertise . Wooden boat builders are the experts here. West Systems have a great beginning level of instructions Industrial Formalators (sp) in the marine industry and their line of epoxies were well regarded. I got engineering papers off them. You are not the first person to discouver the brittleness of plywood stocks. It's the glue and the thinness of the wood. My buddy and hunting partner gave up on them after a one cracked on a mere 308 about 25 years ago. I shoot a 338-06 ,too.
You problem is recoil. Hey, the classic Mauser 98 action is famous for cracking behind the tang, it had the same problem with recoil. You have to transfer the load over as wide an area as possible . I look to make my bedding a structural component of my stock as well as a solid base. I use mini fibers, but in your case I would go up a notch in strength and use fiberglass fibers, West sells both for mixing with epoxies. Epoxy on it's own is only a glue you need to add something to make it a composite. Bedding a Savage is a bit of a challenge, there simply isn't much metal down there. I used every bit of possible area, up the sides, any where. In your case this would be a necessity to get as large as possible fiberglass and epoxy reinforcing member. Epoxy on it's own needs tight gaps, so to fill your crack, I would add minifibers to make the epoxy gap filling . Industrial Formalators got bought out by System Three. I use their G-2 epoxy, it's an aircraft grade epoxy with properties that work well for this application. Hit the hobby store for Plastersine and good luck. You should end up with a stock better than any you could buy.
For that repair, I would start by grinding out much of the epoxy bedding. Then carefully inspect for cracks, especially in the rear action screw area where I would expect to find a similar delamination along the same seam. Drill down the crack in one or two places with a #40 drill and using a thin epoxy inject with a glue syringe into the cracked area. Clamp and wipe off excess epoxy squeeze.
Epoxy bed the action, then drill and epoxy bed the pillars. If using a pillar identical to the stock Savage steel pillar, I counterbore the hole slightly deep and use the epoxy bedding to achieve a perfect fit.
If during the repair it becomes obvious that there is more cracking or delaminations, cross bolting or cross pinning with a hardwood dowel may be the only way to save the stock.
Good luck and let us know how it turned out.
Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.
Thanks to all who have taken the time to offer suggestions and recommendations! I’m still looking into it all and hoping to get started fixing this in the next few weeks!
I really appreciate the help!
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Thank you for the suggestions here. I'm not sure if I am just not looking into the right sites for this epoxy, but can't find it in small quantities. I don't have a great use for that much epoxy and really don't want to unnecessarily spend $100 or more for the various products you mentioned and end up with so much left over. I have no doubt these products would work phenomenally well for this project, but I just don't see it as being that feasible for me.
For a small job you can use J-B Weld. Use paste wax on ALL the metal you don't want bonded as a release agent and fill any holes (before waxing) with modeling clay. You can also make clay dams to limit the bedded area.
I do a lot with fiberglass boats so I always have a quart of West System (& hardener) on hand. Crazy expensive for just a bedding job; though. I don't like or use the 5, 10, 15 minute varieties you can get in small blister-packs.
Brownells (Montezuma, IA) sells a bedding kit (AcraGlas - thin or gel versions) that is all you need. Available there or from places like Midsouth Shooters Supply and even Amazon. They give you dye to darken it as well; and if you order direct from them you can get green or other "custom" colors.
https://www.brownells.com/search/ind...glas&ksubmit=y
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
Try Lee Valley. I picked up my last container of mini-fibers there. I usually buy the stuff in one gallon ice cream pails at fiberglass industrial suppliers. It's both much cheaper and a larger quantity. It's the third component when using epoxy as a glue. Lee Valley in the States are mail order only. They have tongue depressors, wooden sandwich tooth picks and small measuring cups. They stock a lot of stuff as a service. Brownells does the same. But stay out of the tool section, they only sell good tools. Some are even for stock work. I have three stocks to bed. All three will rely on the bedding as structural component. Two are fitting actions into used stocks with large gaps and one is a new laminate. They are all Mauser actions, a 96,98 and a Zastava. That reminds me, I got to pick up some popsicle sticks at the dollar store hobby section. Maybe I'll even find some plastersine
If it failed once, doing the same thing again, it's going to work ?
I once owned a very nice Model 88 Winchester i had received as a gift.
It was a used gun but in almost new condition.
We used it as a carry gun when we go to retreive an animal.
My son had it on his shoulder using the sling when he went down hard due the snow on the steep hillside, and split the stock at its weakest area.
That being alongside the magazine, where the wood is only about 1/4” thick.
I used a Dremel tool with a very small bit to make grooves in the inside of the stock running in both directions.
I put 16 gauge solid copper wire in the grooves then filled them with epoxy.
Clamped the stock and left it for several days.
You cant find the crack, even if you know where it is.
You can of coarse see the repair when the stock is removed.
You can buy small quantities of Epoxy just about anywhere. Just be sure to avoid the quick curing types. Get 30 min epoxy if you can, it is much stronger and harder.
I've used this material many times and it works well. https://www.walmart.com/ip/BSI-slow-...55oz/631166729
And for the syringe https://www.totalboat.com/product/epoxy-syringes/
Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.
Lots of great info here. Pillars are a must. This is “one” reason I don’t use magazines. I get blind mag stocks and epoxy that hole in. If I’m going light, I fill it with carbon fiber arrow shaft. If going heavy, I use metal, maybe all thread. To really do pillars right, a drill press is needed. Savage pillars are the best in the business IMO, but lamp rod works just fine. Proper bedding of the recoil lug is also critical. I have had stocks where the lug was floating in mid air, allowing recoil to push back against the stock bolts.
With the good info in this thread, and an additional search of the site, all things are possible! Best of luck!
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