Selecting my first rifle

[RBT321]

Hi, newbie alert! :)

I'm looking at my first purchase and wanted some advice fro experienced shooters.

I need to select my first gun to get into long range competition shooting and I'm on a fairly tight budget.. I want it to shoot fairly well straight out of the box and be a great tool to learn with. I would also like it to have a lot of upgradability so that I can gradually change the components to improve it's performance as I build my own skills.

This guy has done two budget projects (1,000 yards for $500 and 1 mile for $1,000) and I generally like his overall approach, so that's what I'm currently considering.

So I have put together a shortlist of guns to choose from - all 6.5mm Creedmoor because I know I'd prefer improved crosswind performance and can just compensate for drop. Dealers appear to have really low stocks at the moment and I think there's an element of "Covid Pricing" going on too, so I'm struggling to find great deals like I've seen mentioned by others on the forum, but this is what I've found so far and I'd appreciate your opinions as to which way I should jump:

$299.99 22671 Savage Axis 6.5mm Creedmoor 22" https://www.rkguns.com/savage-axis-6...71-4rd-22.html
$299.99 22886 Savage Axis 6.5mm Creedmoor 22" Stainless https://www.impactguns.com/bolt-acti...64-22886/#wiki
$369.99 22099 Savage Axis II XP 6.5mm Creedmoor 22" / Bushnell Banner 3-9x40mm https://www.smga.com/savage/axis-ii-...r-w-scope-9521
$464.99 57360 Savage 110 Apex Predator XP 6.5mm Creedmoor 24" / Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44mm (includes $75 rebate until Oct 15) https://www.smga.com/savage/110-apex...-w-vortex-5632
$419.99 18398 Savage 12 FV 6.5mm Creedmoor 26" https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/sava...act&cm_soc=AFF

Whatever direction I go I'm going to need a scope, bipod, cheekrest etc. in the end, so I'd really appreciate your thoughts on whether the XP scopes are worth considering while I'm still learning, or if I should just plan to replace them immediately. Same for AccuStock - is it worth looking for initially?

So over to you: What do you think?

Ross.

[SageRat Shooter]

IMO you should stay away from the Axis line and just go with the 12FV in 6.5 Creedmoor. Already has the heavy contour 26" barrel, and the aftermarket options will be greater. You'll probably want to swap out the stock quickly, but the rest should be ok while you're learning. For Optics, you're going to want an optic that you can dial elevation and windage.

Right now I like the Element line of optics for a low to mid tier price. https://element-optics.com/

Good luck to you,

[mikeinco]

well savage makes great rifles for the money but you are dreaming if you think you are going to me COMPETITIVE at 1000 yards with a $500 off the shelf rifle.
first define your type of competition..specifics. f class, bench rest ?? what ?
(your budget maker is in a dream world, not the real world)
savage top end rifles $1200-1600 will do the job....then add scope and other equipment.
quick break down of a 600/1000 yard br rifle : bbl 350( blank) chambered $125-150, stock 500-1000( mine was 770)
action 1000 to 1500 mine was 1400, trigger 200-500 base 100 rings 100, scope 1500-3500 mine was 2600 fitting and bedding( called a stocker) 500 or more.
over $4000 for a custom

[jkv45]

Depending upon exactly what you want to do, a Savage Model 12 LRP in 6.5CM may be a good start - https://www.savagearms.com/content?p...ummary&s=19136

Not cheap, but should get you started. Comes with a HS Precision aluminum bedded stock that's a big step-up from a standard hunting stock, but not quite a chassis. Also includes other features that you would want. Pretty sure it's going to be in the $1000 range, but given the features I don't think that's bad at all.

Maybe someone that shoots one will chime-in and give a review.

[celltech]

Forget the Axis line even exists...very little to no aftermarket support on it. Get a 12FV and an Oryx chassis and call it a day. If you just want to shoot long range it can easily be as accurate as a full custom build, but the action is not the best for something like PRS where you are really working it hard and fast.

[RBT321]

Two (three inc. Mike) people saying stay away from the Axis, and two votes for the 12 FV already. Cool. Comparing that to the Apex Pred, which has the better action and barrel? Asking just because there's a $75 rebate on 110's at the moment.

Mike, I don't think I'm going to be ready to look at F class for a while (trying to keep my all-in costs for this first rifle to below $750), but thanks for the info - if I get serious I know a bit more about what to be aiming for down the road! I'm not aware there even *is* a 1,000 yard range anywhere near me. I could be wrong (welcome correction!) but so far I've only found Port Malabar's 600 yard range to be the longest one within reasonable travelling distance (~2 hours).

And not sure about bench/prone yet. I think I'd prefer prone, but need to shoot a good number of rounds in both positions to see which I prefer.

Ross.

[SageRat Shooter]

the action on the predator and the 12FV are going to be the same, but the barrel on the 12FV has an extra 2" (or 50fps roughly) Savage barrels are not "great barrels", but you do want a heavier contour for shooting 8-10 shot strings without getting it too hot and changes your POI too much.

I think you will be better served shooting from prone rather than a bench, but it is possible that the bench will work better....? I like shooting from prone whenever possible.

[mikeinco]

you need to define WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO, before buying ANYTHING.
"SHOOTING AT 600 YARDS" IS NOT COMPETING AT 600 YARDS.
define the task before spending money
i just sold a 10 something in 308 that would have worked well for f class at 600, not for br.
for 600 a 6br on the top end of savage would probably work but even then it breaks your budget.
bottom line your "plan" is much bigger than your budget

Two (three inc. Mike) people saying stay away from the Axis, and two votes for the 12 FV already. Cool. Comparing that to the Apex Pred, which has the better action and barrel? Asking just because there's a $75 rebate on 110's at the moment.

Mike, I don't think I'm going to be ready to look at F class for a while (trying to keep my all-in costs for this first rifle to below $750), but thanks for the info - if I get serious I know a bit more about what to be aiming for down the road! I'm not aware there even *is* a 1,000 yard range anywhere near me. I could be wrong (welcome correction!) but so far I've only found Port Malabar's 600 yard range to be the longest one within reasonable travelling distance (~2 hours).

And not sure about bench/prone yet. I think I'd prefer prone, but need to shoot a good number of rounds in both positions to see which I prefer.

Ross.

[Benmuncie]

Welcome to Savage rifles. I think I completely understand where you are coming from as I am just a few years past my first Savage. I ended up choosing the 12 fv because it was on sale, could be upgraded with any of the savage model 10 upgrades, and was easy to work with. The stock is not their worst stock, but it’s not stiff. However, there are some very easy DIY projects you can complete on the stock with a few hours worth of work that makes it much better. Primarily, place a small steel rod in the fore end and fill the channel with epoxy. And bedding the recoil lug and/or action helps.
The 12fv is a great rifle to start with, and you can pick up upgrades from the classified adds as you find them. Before you spend a lot on upgrades, don’t be afraid to experiment on the factory/stock rifle as it will give you good experience and also help you narrow down where you want to spend your upgrade money.
I have learned that a good rifle with a great scope is money well spent.


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[Bill2905]

Given the list you presented and your stated budget, the 12FV is an easy choice. As others have already stated, you should seek a heavy barrel. This is a very capable rifle which you can easily customize and upgrade when you get hooked on your new hobby.

[hamiltonkiler]

Your on the right path. Any gun that shoots a bullet within 2moa will bang steel along way out if you can see it and repeat it with the optics.
That Athlon is great and I like the reticle. “Christmas tree”
I shoot only vertical and horizontal marks in my scopes.
If the scope will zero at 100 and has a good reticle you can, should, and will learn to measure, hold, and shoot that reticle.
Cheers. Take good notes at the range and rock on.
Learn to know your scope. What all the graduations mean.


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[jkv45]

How much rifle shooting experience do you have?

Do you have a quality .22 target rifle?

You may want to do some short to mid-range target work with a .22 rifle to build your skills before venturing out to long range CF shooting.

[mikeinco]

again///you have not defined what you want to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there is a massive difference in:
banging steel
2moa mil
fclass
and
br.......
they ain't the same and have little in common including the rifle

[daved20319]

Another vote for the 12 FV. Mine started as a .223, I recently re-barreled it in 6.5 Creedmoor, using a take off barrel from another 12 FV. First thing I did was replace the stock with a Boyd's Pro Varmint, I've used that same stock on several other guns, it just works for me. I pillared and glass bedded the action, then put a Sightron S-TAC 4-20x50 scope on it. As a .223 it was a consistent sub-MOA rifle, I've only got 40 rounds through it as a Creedmoor so far, but 4 of 5 different factory loads were also sub-MOA at 100 yards, I'm still waiting on reloading dies, but it's looking very promising. That said, I don't compete, just shoot for fun, and have yet to stretch it out past 300 yards, although I do have fantasies of reaching out to 1000 yards someday. But if you're looking for a trainer to learn the basics of long range shooting, you could do a lot worse. Good luck.

Dave

[charlie b]

Before buying I would go to a local match. See the match director during a lull in the activity and tell him/her that you are interested in learning. The club may have a 'new shooter' plan that might include things like loaner rifles and such. See if you like that kind of shooting first. And if the range has multiple types of matches, then visit all of them. As Mike stated, BR, F class, and PRS are all different animals.

If you have never fired a rifle for score on a target then starting with a .22 is the best place to go. At a club that is probably where they would start you. Mainly so you can learn the art of shooting without having to deal with the recoil of a larger cartridge. But, also due to cost. Premium rifle ammunition for something like the 6.5CM is expensive, $30-50 per box, and you will go through several boxes in a match. Rimfire ammunition is terribly cheap by comparison and you still learn the same skills.

If you already shoot CF rifles then visiting the matches has a side benefit. You can frequently get a nice used rifle already set up for the type of shooting you want. That way you won't 'waste' money on a setup that might get replaced in a few years anyway.

[ninner]

As for everyone dogging on the axis heres my 6.5 creedmoor build. It can be done and the geometry of the action lends itself to accuracy. Recoil lug not so much, but it locks up good in this chassis so I just trued the action on the lathe , it was out about .5 mill, and didn’t cut it for a traditional lug. I started down the path after finding an axis lefty beater at a pawn shop For $150. Cobbled together parts from here and eBay. $500ish later Not including the glass. I’ve got a damn fine rifle. Should a newbie try it? Probably not, can it be done? Yes. Could I sell it for what I have in it? Not unless the buyer shot it.


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[hamiltonkiler]

As for everyone dogging on the axis heres my 6.5 creedmoor build. It can be done and the geometry of the action lends itself to accuracy. Recoil lug not so much, but it locks up good in this chassis so I just trued the action on the lathe , it was out about .5 mill, and didn’t cut it for a traditional lug. I started down the path after finding an axis lefty beater at a pawn shop For $150. Cobbled together parts from here and eBay. $500ish later Not including the glass. I’ve got a damn fine rifle. Should a newbie try it? Probably not, can it be done? Yes. Could I sell it for what I have in it? Not unless the buyer shot it.


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I’ve never seen that chassis and I’m in love. Dang..


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[RBT321]

As for everyone dogging on the axis heres my 6.5 creedmoor build. It can be done and the geometry of the action lends itself to accuracy. Recoil lug not so much, but it locks up good in this chassis so I just trued the action on the lathe , it was out about .5 mill, and didn’t cut it for a traditional lug. I started down the path after finding an axis lefty beater at a pawn shop For $150. Cobbled together parts from here and eBay. $500ish later Not including the glass. I’ve got a damn fine rifle. Should a newbie try it? Probably not, can it be done? Yes. Could I sell it for what I have in it? Not unless the buyer shot it.


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I have to say, that's exactly the sort of "build project" that really appeals to me!

I'll probably get just as much satisfaction from doing that sort of custom job, as I will from firing it.

The Axis probably would be enough for me to learn the basics on, as I'm starting out. But given the strong recommendations on here and the fact that I'm looking at a fairly small all-in difference of about $130 between the Axis ($567) and the 12 FV ($698), I think it makes sense to go for the extra 4 inches and the heavier barrel. But I'm really liking what you did there - it gives me ideas :) Thanks for sharing!

Ross.

[Robinhood]

have you considered a used savage rifle?

[RBT321]

have you considered a used savage rifle?

Yes, but I wouldn't know a well treated example from a bad one, so I'm wary.

If it was through a dealer I'd be more confident. Even a decent sized operation with a table at a local gun show I'd likely be happy to give it a go, but I found my local shows seem to all be about 20% over-price compared to the rest of the country. Actually overheard a guy at the last one telling his GF this was all "Covid Pricing"!

And I haven't found many examples of the 12 FV being given up by owners - which is another sign that it's a good choice.

Ross.

[ninner]

have you considered a used savage rifle?

I have only bought one new savage rifle in my life and it’s been long gone for years. Savage rifles are sub $200 around here in pawn shops all the time.


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[Dave Hoback]

Well, used is definitely the way to go! Picked mine up off Gunbroker for $170. It was a model 10 Accutrigger in .243, synthetic stock. I was only concerned with the Action & trigger from the start. Immediately stripped it and built into this.

[RBT321]

I have only bought one new savage rifle in my life and it’s been long gone for years. Savage rifles are sub $200 around here in pawn shops all the time.

Genuine question because I do not know the answer and it would helpful to learn: What is the likelihood that a rifle found in a pawn shop will have been treated well? Are we talking 50/50? Better? Worse?

And are there any immediate give-aways that a newbie like me could spot to indicate a rifle has not been treated well?

This is Florida so guns are popular and lots of people use pawn shops all the time, so its probably worth me trawling a few of my local stores to see if there's anything interesting. Knowing their other stocks of computer games and music gear, I'm not all that hopeful to see much in the way of good prices around here though.

Ross.

[RBT321]

Yes, I would. There was a lightly used one on GB the other day, but with shipping and the FFL, it would have cost me more than I paid at BassPro!

Ross.

[hamiltonkiler]

Those 20$ kydex cheek risers are fine


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