Savage quality

[tobnpr]

The barrel itself, and the quality of the chambering, are the two most important factors in building an accurate rifle IMHO.
Mass production barrels are exactly that...
I honestly have no idea what, if any, QC Savage extends to their barrels- based on what I've personally seen I would have to say none.

As mentioned, just about every one I've talked myself into borescoping has absolutely horrible chatter from the rifling button. If I ever got a blank like that from Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen, etc. I'd put it back in the tube and send it back where it came from. Nevertheless, most all shoot "well"- meaning sub-minute, and some much better. Goes to show it's not as detrimental as many presume.

To my point, without stringent QC you can't be sure that EVERY barrel will live up to the high standards that top-end manufacturers stake their reputation on.
Every blank borescoped. Every blank air-gauged and the bore lapped. This is why the top dogs have the reputations they do, and can get the $$ they charge. No smith (none with a brain, anyhow) will want to risk spending a day painstakingly chambering a barrel as precisely as can be done- only to have it fail to shoot due to a lousy bore.

When it comes to barrels, you can guarantee a tack driver if you spend the coin on the barrel and a smith that knows what to do with it (or a prefit from a quality manuf)
Or, you can roll the dice less expensively with a Savage- usually you'll be a happy camper if your expectations are realistic. If not, re-barrel it- because they can be done without a smith, you're hundreds $$ ahead of the game.

The most expensive Savage I ever purchased (I usually just buy the actions) was a recent .338 LM.
Barrel looks like sh**, but shoots 3/4 minute. In my mind, for a bit over a grand- I got a marginal (but safe) action, and a nice chassis that was worth the purchase price. If it didn't shoot, I was going to rebarrel it and it would have still been a good investment.

Keep in mind, if you're an accuracy "freak" like many of us (only accurate rifles are interesting, right?)- scour the pawnshops and pick up a rifle in your desired action length- usually $200-$300 tops will do it.
You can rebarrel it, install a quality trigger, and set it in a decent stock like a B&C and still be at around a grand. In my mind, that's a better route than rolling the dice on a factory stick.

[Retired Army Guy]

Savage Rifles have a positive reputation for very affordable and accurate rifles. Sometimes they have issues with barrel vs receiver alignment. I haven't dove down the rabbit hole of exactly why or what causes them to sometimes have this problem but it does occasionally happen. It has been documented on this site, verified by my local gunsmiths and has happened to me personally. Based on severity you can either #1-purchases mounts that have adjustable windage/horizontal. #2-Adjust it out with your scope (depending how much you have to adjust this may Not be a good idea) or #3 send it back to the Factory. All factory assembly line produced rifles have issues at one time or another. I would not discount any brand because they had a problem with this or that. If you want absolute perfection either build it yourself if you have the skill set or have one custom built which is going to cost a lot more!

[Ted_Feasel]

Savage should do what ( i think it was bergera ) did, pay Ed shilen to come in and examine barrel quality control and production.. i think it was bergera..or maybe thompson??

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[Fotheringill]

Never seen a factory savage barrel even close to shilen quality and accuracy

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That may well be, but I got one. If Savage would sell a replacement factory barrel for my F/TR, I would get it in a heartbeat.

[Ted_Feasel]

That may well be, but I got one. If Savage would sell a replacement factory barrel for my F/TR, I would get it in a heartbeat.

Yeah I rebarrel all my savages.. i do have a couple that are factory and look rough but are pretty accurate.

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[Dave Hoback]

Never seen a factory savage barrel even close to shilen quality and accuracy

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I was thinking the same when I saw that last post. But of course there are exceptions.

Anyway, I’m not sure why Savage is trying to get into the next level rifle class. (Price wise). It gives the “Complaint Department” more ammo of Savage sucking! Broken record. I know MY Savage has exceptional machining and punches FAR above its weight class, considering investment. THAT’s the reason I built it in the first place. Someone wants to buy an $1100+ or whatever Savage, that’s their prerogative. I am however, somewhat dismissive of a person talking ish about how a rifle they felt inclined to purchase LOOKS because of machining marks....and testing it’s performance.

[Ted_Feasel]

I was thinking the same when I saw that last post. But of course there are exceptions.

Anyway, I’m not sure why Savage is trying to get into the next level rifle class. (Price wise). It gives the “Complaint Department” more ammo of Savage sucking! Broken record. I know MY Savage has exceptional machining and punches FAR above its weight class, considering investment. THAT’s the reason I built it in the first place. Someone wants to buy an $1100+ or whatever Savage, that’s their prerogative. I am however, somewhat dismissive of a person talking ish about how a rifle they felt inclined to purchase LOOKS because of machining marks....and testing it’s performance.

I definitely think savage gives you one of the best bangs for the buck pun intended lol. I do think a lot of people expect way too much though from a 4 or $500 rifle

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[Robinhood]

I definitely think savage gives you one of the best bangs for the buck pun intended lol. I do think a lot of people expect way too much though from a 4 or $500 rifle

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Or a 5 or 600 dollar optic.

[Ted_Feasel]

Or a 5 or 600 dollar optic.

I gotta say, ive been really happy with some vortex and primary arms optics that were in the 5-600 range even compared to the razor HD i have I dont see alot of difference.

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[justpassinthru]

I just wish I still had my factory barrel. Much better than the Shilen super duper replacement.

Have you contacted Shilen about this problem?

[Ted_Feasel]

Have you contacted Shilen about this problem?

I would DEFINITELY contact shilen.. ive has a dozen select match and not one of them was anything less than one hole barrels

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[Txhillbilly]

I gotta say, ive been really happy with some vortex and primary arms optics that were in the 5-600 range even compared to the razor HD i have I dont see alot of difference.

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Ted,If you can't tell the difference between a $500-600 scope and one that cost $1000+,you need to get your eyes checked. There's a world of difference optically and mechanically.
Now,once you start comparing $1500 scopes to $2000 - $3000 scopes,most shooter's can't really see the differences unless they know what to look for,and even then unless you're shooting in extreme conditions and ranges it's hard to notice.

[Robinhood]

I gotta say, ive been really happy with some vortex and primary arms optics that were in the 5-600 range even compared to the razor HD i have I dont see alot of difference.

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Rex Tibor says the same about some of the Primary Arms optics and really gives the reticle designer for PA some credit.

However when it comes to Clarity, CA etc I am with TX hillbilly.

[Ted_Feasel]

Rex Tibor says the same about some of the Primary Arms optics and really gives the reticle designer for PA some credit.

However when it comes to Clarity, CA etc I am with TX hillbilly.

I can definitely agree that like razor hd or similar have a edge in clarity but not much. One of the pa scopes I have is 3-18x50 ffp Athena mill tree reticle and I am impressed with it to say the least.. it returns to 0 flawlessly, the adjustments are true (1 click@100 yards moves .36") , the side focus seem to be dead on and ive been out pretty far with it and image was bright and crisp.. ive heard rumors that they are made by the same Japanese company that makes vortex.. dont know if thats true so I won't say its the gospel.

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[Robinhood]

ive heard rumors that they are made by the same Japanese company that makes vortex.. dont know if thats true so I won't say its the gospel.

Yeah. LOW probably. They are making the flagship for Athlon and probably Bushnells better stuff too. I bet there are others also.

[Ted_Feasel]

Yeah. LOW probably. They are making the flagship for Athlon and probably Bushnells better stuff too. I bet there are others also.

Well I know vortex on their high end scopes take basically the same scopes ordered to the specs they desire then they in house machine new high quality turret mechanisims, etch new reticles.. basically gut them and replace the parts with high quality parts they make in house.. ive wondered if the is any compatibility among the internals of PA and vortex

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[Robinhood]

Well I know vortex on their high end scopes take basically the same scopes ordered to the specs they desire then they in house machine new high quality turret mechanisims, etch new reticles.. basically gut them and replace the parts with high quality parts they make in house.. ive wondered if the is any compatibility among the internals of PA and vortex

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Im not sure about that but I do believe the AMG is American Made Glass.

[Ted_Feasel]

Im not sure about that but I do believe the AMG is American Made Glass.

It is.. im talking about their high end scopes.. they even detail on their site what they do to make them better.. Japanese glass though ain't nothing to sneeze at.. they have been dealing in some of the finest optics in the film industry for decades.. im sure cinema quality camara lenses are made to a very high standard. But all in all i would much prefer American made even if it does cost a little more at times

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[yobuck]

I wonder who makes the Jap glass now days?

[Ted_Feasel]

I wonder who makes the Jap glass now days?

I think they probably make their own.. they have been making top notch glass for cameras and lenses, telescopes for decades but i guess I dont really know if they have outsorced

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[yobuck]

The barrel itself, and the quality of the chambering, are the two most important factors in building an accurate rifle IMHO.
Mass production barrels are exactly that...
I honestly have no idea what, if any, QC Savage extends to their barrels- based on what I've personally seen I would have to say none.

As mentioned, just about every one I've talked myself into borescoping has absolutely horrible chatter from the rifling button. If I ever got a blank like that from Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen, etc. I'd put it back in the tube and send it back where it came from. Nevertheless, most all shoot "well"- meaning sub-minute, and some much better. Goes to show it's not as detrimental as many presume.

To my point, without stringent QC you can't be sure that EVERY barrel will live up to the high standards that top-end manufacturers stake their reputation on.
Every blank borescoped. Every blank air-gauged and the bore lapped. This is why the top dogs have the reputations they do, and can get the $$ they charge. No smith (none with a brain, anyhow) will want to risk spending a day painstakingly chambering a barrel as precisely as can be done- only to have it fail to shoot due to a lousy bore.

When it comes to barrels, you can guarantee a tack driver if you spend the coin on the barrel and a smith that knows what to do with it (or a prefit from a quality manuf)
Or, you can roll the dice less expensively with a Savage- usually you'll be a happy camper if your expectations are realistic. If not, re-barrel it- because they can be done without a smith, you're hundreds $$ ahead of the game.

The most expensive Savage I ever purchased (I usually just buy the actions) was a recent .338 LM.
Barrel looks like sh**, but shoots 3/4 minute. In my mind, for a bit over a grand- I got a marginal (but safe) action, and a nice chassis that was worth the purchase price. If it didn't shoot, I was going to rebarrel it and it would have still been a good investment.

Keep in mind, if you're an accuracy "freak" like many of us (only accurate rifles are interesting, right?)- scour the pawnshops and pick up a rifle in your desired action length- usually $200-$300 tops will do it.
You can rebarrel it, install a quality trigger, and set it in a decent stock like a B&C and still be at around a grand. In my mind, that's a better route than rolling the dice on a factory stick.

Well that all sounds good, but fact is most people buying factory built rifles arent (accuracy) freaks, including most who buy Savages.
Fact also is that many of the factory rifles today shoot extremly well, not just Savages, which could also be for reasons other than the rifle itself.
Lets be perfectly honest here as for the accuracy nuts using Savages.
Most who do, do so because they dont have the machinery nor the ability to use it for chambering a barrel and installing it without a barrel nut.
Mind you now i fully realize that building a gun on a tuned factory action could exceed the ability level of most of us.
But tuning an action is a skill level most of us dont have either, and id venture to say most arent for that reason.
So at what point does any of that begin to matter, or dosent it matter anyway for at least most of us who might consider ourselves accuracy nuts?

[Robinhood]

Well that all sounds good, but fact is most people buying factory built rifles arent (accuracy) freaks, including most who buy Savages.
Fact also is that many of the factory rifles today shoot extremly well, not just Savages, which could also be for reasons other than the rifle itself.
Lets be perfectly honest here as for the accuracy nuts using Savages.
Most who do, do so because they dont have the machinery nor the ability to use it for chambering a barrel and installing it without a barrel nut.
Mind you now i fully realize that building a gun on a tuned factory action could exceed the ability level of most of us.
But tuning an action is a skill level most of us dont have either, and id venture to say most arent for that reason.
So at what point does any of that begin to matter, or dosent it matter anyway for at least most of us who might consider ourselves accuracy nuts?

I guess it is time to shut down the gun forums. Everyone wants to talk about accuracy but that's all been done 40 years ago and there is nothing left to talk about. Why should anyone get into the sport or even modify their factory rifle? Turn out the lights...the party is over.

[Ted_Feasel]

I guess it is time to shut down the gun forums. Everyone wants to talk about accuracy but that's all been done 40 years ago and there is nothing left to talk about. Why should anyone get into the sport or even modify their factory rifle? Turn out the lights...the party is over.

I never met you but I gotta feeling we would get along just fine my fellow smart ass

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