First Savage Rifle-Not Impressed thus far.

[Retired Army Guy]

Well I couldn't hardly believe it- after all this time a UPS truck delivered me a new rifle yesterday. Mounted a scope on it and did not need a single click of windage and barely two clicks of elevation to get the cross hairs over the bore=PERFECT! Even though they were kinda slow the replacement rifle so far appears to be near perfect! Glad to see an American Firearms Company making quality products! Cant wait to shoot it!

[tobnpr]

Mass production always turns out a few lemons.

Apparently Savage agreed this was the case- hoping it shoots straight, good luck.

[Whynot]

Not attacking anyone (and if I am wrong I am willing to change my opinion)- but this seems like such overkill for a non-issue. 5 moa off of center? Custom guns have that.... and it doesn't matter. Take 2 defiance actions with the machined in integrated rail and remove a zeroed scope from one and put it on the other and it will not be dead on.

And as far as light transmission and image quality... If that was such a big issue then people wouldn't dial elevation in their scope- they would have rings that dialed it. Any time that you are actually shooting the gun (at any distance) you have dialed away from center.... and it's no issue.

But I'm glad that you received a rifle that you are happy with....

[chamokaneman]

Great thread. Learn something new every time I come here.

[tobnpr]

Not attacking anyone (and if I am wrong I am willing to change my opinion)- but this seems like such overkill for a non-issue. 5 moa off of center? Custom guns have that.... and it doesn't matter. Take 2 defiance actions with the machined in integrated rail and remove a zeroed scope from one and put it on the other and it will not be dead on.

5 minutes off receiver centerline at 100 yards isn't acceptable, and I don't follow the analogy with custom actions. Even on the same rifle, you're never getting back to zero removing and re-installing a scope even with quality QD rings.

No way to know in this case if it was the receiver, the barrel, or a combination of the two. I can honestly say I've never encountered a rifle (that wasn't defective) with that much error. It would be bad enough if it were elevation- which can be corrected. A large windage error like this is impossible to correct (easily, anyway...). The line of sight, and the imaginary line of the bore axis will cross at a different point at any given distance- it's not linear. 5 minutes at 100 yards becomes 10 minutes at 200 yards- and over 4 feet at 1000. Then, factor in the actual wind call on top of that. Too much going on there for accurate dope.

In any case, Savage would not have replaced the rifle if they didn't concur that it was substandard.

[Whynot]

5 minutes off receiver centerline at 100 yards isn't acceptable, and I don't follow the analogy with custom actions. Even on the same rifle, you're never getting back to zero removing and re-installing a scope even with quality QD rings.

No way to know in this case if it was the receiver, the barrel, or a combination of the two. I can honestly say I've never encountered a rifle (that wasn't defective) with that much error. It would be bad enough if it were elevation- which can be corrected. A large windage error like this is impossible to correct (easily, anyway...). The line of sight, and the imaginary line of the bore axis will cross at a different point at any given distance- it's not linear. 5 minutes at 100 yards becomes 10 minutes at 200 yards- and over 4 feet at 1000. Then, factor in the actual wind call on top of that. Too much going on there for accurate dope.

In any case, Savage would not have replaced the rifle if they didn't concur that it was substandard.

That was my point.... pull your scope off and then replace it and it very rarely returns to the exact zero... sometimes you can be inches off. So if something that simple can move your zero that much is seems crazy to worry about 5 inches off at 100 yards. Think about what % error that actually is.... 100 yards is 300 feet so 3600 inches... and you are dealing with 5" in 3600". And that is assuming that it was all on the rifle and nothing on the base or rings.

Dial the 5moa into your scope, set the turrets to zero and never think about it again.

[gbflyer]

That was my point.... pull your scope off and then replace it and it very rarely returns to the exact zero... sometimes you can be inches off. So if something that simple can move your zero that much is seems crazy to worry about 5 inches off at 100 yards. Think about what % error that actually is.... 100 yards is 300 feet so 3600 inches... and you are dealing with 5" in 3600". And that is assuming that it was all on the rifle and nothing on the base or rings.

Dial the 5moa into your scope, set the turrets to zero and never think about it again.

Agree with that. Also, we can beat ourselves up all day long about small axial misalignments due to good machining practices or the lack thereof. At the end of the day, not a single barrel is perfect and the bore wonders a bit on every one of them and I’ve never seen one that was perfectly centered, not that I have the measuring equipment to know how much. Put one in a lathe and look down the bore while it’s spinning. Even the best ones will sometimes make you dizzy. And they still shoot just fine. The best we can hope for is excellent bore and groove diameter consistency and stress - free heat treatment. Barrel QC is where it’s at, and is totally beyond the control of the gun plumber. NBRSA hall of famer Tony Boyer will have several barrels chambered at a time. Same maker same smith. And he will cull a bunch of them.

I have chambered many switch barrels. I have a 7-08 and a 6.5 from X-Caliber that I can interchange on the same action with 1 MOA POI shift. That’s the only ones

Glad Savage made it right. Would still have been interesting to shoot the original.

[Whynot]

Would still have been interesting to shoot the original.

That's the real issue.... I've bore sighted enough rifles (with lasers and removing the bolt and sighting) and you don't get close enough to have any idea if the rifle and scope were actually off. You can not bore sight and depend to be close,- all you really get is enough to be on paper and then fine tune. Also, (unless they have changed) the UPS just doesn't deliver new rifles.... they could have worked on it- or installed a new barrel, but a new gun would require paperwork. At least that was what they told me, that it was illegal to put the same serial # on a new action even if they destroyed the old one.

[Fotheringill]

Everything else in this thread is the Gospel, but think about changes caused by not having the scope mounted with equal AND proper torque on the mount to the rifle and the same for the rings and the scope. I have made that error myself and caused about 100 rounds to be used (wasted) trying to figure it out on this issue.

[Nomosendero]

Interesting, very similar to a LRH I recently bought. Was waaaay high and had to use about 1/3 of my elevation on a Ziess V-4 just to sight in at 100 yds, poor accuracy overall & have crazy shifts in windage when I change loads even with the same bullet weight, like 10" difference at 100 yds.