Savage 11 blew up

[hdball]

I've been a member here a while, don't post much, really just research. I have a few savage rifles stock and custom builds never had any complaints. This past Saturday night my sons 11 243 blew up. He shot a coyote, ejected the case, and when he tried to chamber the next round, the rifle blew up into 3 or 4 pieces. Never had a chance to even try and lock the bolt. Blew the bolt back into his hand, case blew up, gun came apart, and something cut his hand wide open. Bolt is now bent just ahead of the handle where I'm assuming it push back into his hand when the shell detonated. We're not sure if shrapnel from the case or the bolt split his hand open. The doctor did have to dig some metal out of his hand before stitching it up. We don't reload, so factory loads. Upon further investigation the cocking button is still in the cocked position but the firing pin is still sticking out in the fire position. Only thing I can figure is the firing pin broke and got stuck sticking out through the bolt face but everything else cocked as usual allowing him to attempt to cycle the bolt. When the case seated in the chamber he was pushing hard enough to ignite the primer. I've searched all over the internet and haven't seen any cases of this happening before. Usually savage firing pin issues cause the gun not to fire. There have been some cases where closing the bolt has caused the firing pin to fire, but that doesn't explain the cocking button still in the cocked position but the firing pin still out. I guess I'm just posting this to give everyone a heads up. Not really sure what direction we're going in next. Gun probably hasn't had more than 3 boxes shot through it. He saved up his own money and bought the gun when he was 13 or 14 yrs old. He's 17 now and has always taken meticulous care of this rifle. Its just scary when something you count on working has a catastrophic failure like this.

[J.Baker]

There was one account I read about a while back with an Axis where the owner had a similar out of battery detonation. In that case however, the shooter had chambered a round and pulled the trigger, but no bang. He then opened the bolt about half way to make sure a round had chambered and as he was closing the bolt to try the same round again it went off. That one sounded more like a hang-fire from a light primer strike to me.

Best I can tell you is to contact Savage. I'm sure they will want you to send them the rifle so they can check it out and possibly see what could have caused it. A broken and/or stuck firing pin sounds logical though.

[Orezona]

And please, take meticulous photos and document the event while everything is fresh in your mind before you send that rifle in. And don't shoot anymore rounds out of that box of ammunition. I'm glad your son is okay and not at risk of any permanent injuries.

[charlie b]

It does sound like a broken firing pin that got wedged in place.

Glad the injury wasn't worse. I'd also take a bunch of pictures of the rifle before sending it back.

[sharpshooter]

I've heard and saw strange things that end up catastrophic, but the firing pin situation doesn't add up. Not that it's impossible, but I've never seen a firing pin break, let alone wedge itself in a bolt head, protruding.

[hdball]

I'll take a pic of the bolt. Button is in the cocked position, pin is sticking out easily far enough to strike the primer.

[grouse]

That is a newer lwh and very likely has the newer firing pin. Can you take a photo of the rear of the bolt where the big screw threads in?

[nksmfamjp]

Why is the standard reaction to sue the gunmaker....or the ammo maker? Why not call Savage and ask them to look at it. If the injury created some “loss” for your son, ask them to pay for it. I would bet they would be thrilled to deal with someone not immediately thinking how can I sue. Maybe contact the ammo maker too. Ask them to pay an independent gunsmith of your choice.....I don’t know. I’m not an attorney and never seen a problem solved by one.

[Whynot]

Why is the standard reaction to sue the gunmaker....or the ammo maker? Why not call Savage and ask them to look at it. If the injury created some “loss” for your son, ask them to pay for it. I would bet they would be thrilled to deal with someone not immediately thinking how can I sue. Maybe contact the ammo maker too. Ask them to pay an independent gunsmith of your choice.....I don’t know. I’m not an attorney and never seen a problem solved by one.

I haven't seen people telling him to sue.... I've seen people telling him to document everything. After he sends the gun to savage and they say "It must have been your fault"- that's a piss poor time to start documenting things. Maybe Savage will treat him right and he wont need the evidence... (maybe it wasn't savages fault at all)... but advising lots of pictures and evidence isn't the same as telling someone to sue.

[Whynot]

Hdball.... did the bolt come all the way out of the action?? Or did the bolt stop do it's job?

[Orezona]

Why is the standard reaction to sue the gunmaker....or the ammo maker? Why not call Savage and ask them to look at it. If the injury created some “loss” for your son, ask them to pay for it. I would bet they would be thrilled to deal with someone not immediately thinking how can I sue. Maybe contact the ammo maker too. Ask them to pay an independent gunsmith of your choice.....I don’t know. I’m not an attorney and never seen a problem solved by one.

I didn't say sue, lawyer, court or money. I said take pictures and don't shoot any more rounds out of the factory box. Geez....

[hdball]

I don't necessarily want to sue anyone either. Especially in today's day and age where there seems to be a war on the firearm community. I feel like we're all on the same team and suing savage would kinda be like attacking one of our own. I also have to be realistic about the situation. My son's 17, a baseball player, aspirations of playing in college, and while there's supposedly no nerve damage in his hand, until he can start working out again we don't know anything. I can post pics of his hand if y'all would like to see? Just didnt know if the would be considered appropriate or not.

[hdball]

The bolt shot all the way out of the gun. It was laying on the ground after everything blew up.

[Robinhood]

I didn't say sue, lawyer, court or money. I said take pictures and don't shoot any more rounds out of the factory box. Geez....

No you didn't but others did. It is so easy to think someone is speaking about you when in actuality they are discussing a matter that came from another location. One issue while debating in an open discussion in a online forum.

[Orezona]

No you didn't but others did. It is so easy to think someone is speaking about you when in actuality they are discussing a matter that came from another location. One issue while debating in an open discussion in a online forum.

10-4

[grouse]

Lugs were never engaged so the bolt had nothing to hold it in place

[yobuck]

Lugs were never engaged so the bolt had nothing to hold it in place

Meaning the bolt was never closed? Something i obviously missed.

[Dave Hoback]

Meaning the bolt was never closed? Something i obviously missed.

Oh yeah Yobuck...this one fired as his son push in on the bolt! Reason I think all of us are positive the firing pin is broken.

Hdball, it would be a good idea to have a gunsmith check it out before sending to Savage, if that is what they want.(which of course they will). Hopefully they will take responsibility, apologize immediately and make it right. While I agree with you about not wanting to sue, and I don’t believe this is a “Million dollar” court case..., I do believe Savage needs to make it right! I believe offering a replacement OF YOUR CHOICE from the Savage rifle lineup & perhaps hospital costs. I’d say give them opportunity to make it right. Now, if they offer nothing, and start with the old.., “it’s your fault” bs, well then the gloves are off! IMHO. Of course it’s your call.

Oh, and I really don’t think Savage would “send” anyone to SSS. I seriously doubt the decision makers for Savage even know him.

[Orezona]

I would be really interested in what Savage says if/when the OP calls Savage to explain the event. This would clear up a lot of guess work in my mind. Then I could skip past all the what ifs.

[Robinhood]

I would be really interested in what Savage says if/when the OP calls Savage to explain the event. This would clear up a lot of guess work in my mind. Then I could skip past all the what ifs.

resolution?

[grouse]

I would put money that savage has already seen this thread given the relationship that the forum has with Savage.

[sharpshooter]

I have gleaned enough information from pictures and testimony from this thread to tell what exactly happened without a shadow of a doubt. You can quit treating this like a crime scene investigation, because the evidence will not change. This is just an unfortunate FREAK accident. Here are the facts as presented: The shooter shot at a coyote (didn't say whether he hit or killed it, but none the less he attempted to reload). The shooter cycled the bolt back to eject the case and reload the next round. The next round exited the magazine and entered in the chamber, and before the bolt could be turned into battery, the round went off, exploding, blowing the bolt out and destroying the rifle and caused injury to the shooter.

Here's what happened in detail: After the first shot, somewhere in between the pulling of the trigger and the raising of the bolt, the firing pin separated from the cocking piece. This would explain why the bolt was in the cocked position and the firing pin was in the fired position. This could have only happen to a multi piece firing pin assembly. Once the cocking piece and the firing pin become separated, the spring will push them apart, something that could NOT happen with a 1 pc firing pin. The 1 pc firing pins have the springs BEHIND the cocking piece.
With the firing pin now protruding, racking the bolt and driving it home for a fast follow up shot resulted in a "slam fire". The bolt hadn't been turned yet to lock it down, it never got that far before the detonation.

Now begs the question......how did the firing pin separate from the cocking piece? Robinhood suggested that it came unscrewed, and I wouldn't rule it out, but is it very unlikely due to fact that the cocking sleeve is keyed to the lock washer and the lock washer is keyed to the flat on firing pin. If the lock washer was broken, and I have seen a few broken, it may have rotated on the pin. I every case I've seen of a broken lock washer, even though broken, they stayed in place for the fact of the notches in the cocking sleeve. By the way, there is only one way to break a cocking piece lock washer...a pierced primer or case failure. Escaping gases exit through the firing pin hole in the bolt head and basically push the firing pin assembly back like a piston until the spring compresses to solid height and has no where to go but to bottom out on the lock washer. This is evident when the bolt is disassembled because there is a trace of soot all over the firing pin assembly.

The next guess would be that the firing pin broke. It would have to break somewhere between the cocking piece and the firing pin stop nut....the thickest part of the pin. The most likely place would be at the start of the threads on either end, because that is where the smallest diameter is. The firing pins are heat treated, and it would be possible that a hard spot could occur and fail from all the slamming and stress. The only other reason could be that the threads were faulty, over/undersize on the pin and the cocking piece, and it didn't have enough thread engagement to overcome the tension from the mainspring. That would be evident by looking at the threads.

Like I said before, the evidence will NOT change, no matter who tears it apart. Oh, and Dave....FYI, the decision makers at Savage know me on a first name basis. I was at the plant in July 2018 at their invitation and on their dollar.

[Robinhood]

Donesky

[Orezona]

Excellent post Sharpshooter.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh, and Dave....FYI, the decision makers at Savage know me on a first name basis. I was at the plant in July 2018 at their invitation and on their dollar.

WOW! You truly are a Dwarf among Midgets in your world!