Wc 844 and wc 846

[69gen1]

Well does anybody have any thoughts on these powders or ever use them? they say military rifle powder on the jug along with the # for the powder. says the wc 844 is similar to h335 and use that data but reduce by 10%. The wc 846 says similar to bl-c2 and use that data but reduce by 10%..any thoughts or use of this powder would be appreciated.includeing do's and don'ts

[yobuck]

The final decision will be made by you.
No Ive never used that powder.
but i have used a considerable amount of the surplus WC872 powder.
Which is a very slow burning powder with data about the same as the now discontinued H870.
Ive also tried surplus powder that we had no idea about, ended up calling slo stick and was found to be close to 4350 for performance.
If somebody you knew gave you a plastic jug filled with powder he claimed was something you use, would you use it?

[69gen1]

The final decision will be made by you.
No Ive never used that powder.
but i have used a considerable amount of the surplus WC872 powder.
Which is a very slow burning powder with data about the same as the now discontinued H870.
Ive also tried surplus powder that we had no idea about, ended up calling slo stick and was found to be close to 4350 for performance.
If somebody you knew gave you a plastic jug filled with powder he claimed was something you use, would you use it?

That's about what I thought it is being sold by a reloading co.but personally I was just curious because of the price about $18 a pound in 8 lb jugs..but I dont take many chances with reloading.and dont know if it's new powder or pull down

[yobuck]

Well it wouldn’t be new powder.
But that doesn’t mean it’s not good powder.
Even new lots of powder can vary for performance from lot to lot.
For what its worth, were still using powder from WW2 in several guns.
And the reason is it’s still good, and there isn’t anything new on the market better for what we use it in.

True story. About 40 + years ago a friend and i each wanted to build a 30x378 rifle.
Howard Wolfe wouldn’t build the gun unless you had the right powder, which was WW2 surplus H570.
Those that had it wouldn’t sell any, and it wasent available in stores at least in our area.
I called Hodgdon powder co and a man answered the phone.
When i asked who i was talking with, he said Bruce. I asked if he had any H 570 and he said he thought he might, but call back in a couple days.
When i did he said yep, how much would you like. I said how much do you have, and was told probably 100 pounds or so.
It was 2 bucks a pound and we bought all of it. He shipped it to our local gun shop and we picked it up there. 5 separate 20# containers.
I had a friend who had a 30x378, and i called and told him i had found some powder and asked if he would check it out for me.
I didnt dare tell him how much or where we got it. Anyway to shorten the story it ended up not being H570.
Maybe it was floor sweepings that old Bruce sold us. Lol
But it was probably H 5010 near as we could tell. And when i called and told him he sent our money back and said just dump the powder on the ground someplace. But i gave my half to a guy who was playing around with a 50 caliber.

[69gen1]

Well it wouldn’t be new powder.
But that doesn’t mean it’s not good powder.
Even new lots of powder can vary for performance from lot to lot.
For what its worth, were still using powder from WW2 in several guns.
And the reason is it’s still good, and there isn’t anything new on the market better for what we use it in.

True story. About 40 + years ago a friend and i each wanted to build a 30x378 rifle.
Howard Wolfe wouldn’t build the gun unless you had the right powder, which was WW2 surplus H570.
Those that had it wouldn’t sell any, and it wasent available in stores at least in our area.
I called Hodgdon powder co and a man answered the phone.
When i asked who i was talking with, he said Bruce. I asked if he had any H 570 and he said he thought he might, but call back in a couple days.
When i did he said yep, how much would you like. I said how much do you have, and was told probably 100 pounds or so.
It was 2 bucks a pound and we bought all of it. He shipped it to our local gun shop and we picked it up there. 5 separate 20# containers.
I had a friend who had a 30x378, and i called and told him i had found some powder and asked if he would check it out for me.
I didnt dare tell him how much or where we got it. Anyway to shorten the story it ended up not being H570.
Maybe it was floor sweepings that old Bruce sold us. Lol
But it was probably H 5010 near as we could tell. And when i called and told him he sent our money back and said just dump the powder on the ground someplace. But i gave my half to a guy who was playing around with a 50 caliber.

Little more searching on the net and found quite a few venders selling the same powder stating the same about it..even found info on some sites of people comparing the wc 844 to h335 most state the same close but not the same ..start low work up..lots vary,some say the wc844 is a little slower burn but the next lot might be a little faster..so my take is if anybody uses it would be extremely wise to work it up and all in all might not be to much of a saving in price as I was seeing it listed for $149 free shp and hazmat figured in on 8lb be nice to lay up for hard times I suppose..I do like h335 for 223 rds with 55 grainers

[flutedchamber]

I have used both powders and am quite happy with them. Start low and work your way up with normal care. Don't start with .5 grains under max or you MAY run into trouble.

If you buy more than one jug of these powders, be aware of the lot number on each jug of powder, as burn rates on different lots can run faster or slower. For safety, I develop my load whenever I start a new 8 pound jug. It doesn't take that long and this way you are SURE.

When I do find the burning rate, I make a note on the bottle which commercial powder my jug is equivalent to, and whether it is faster or slower than that powder. I use only new powder, never pulldown.

[hardnosestreetcop]

From the chart that I have WC 844 is/was used in the 5.56MM Ball M193 & M855 62 Gr, Tracer M62 ammunition.
The WC 846 is/was used in 7.62MM Ball M80, Tracer M62 ammunition

[GaryB]

I have been using WC844 in my 223 for some time. Never had a problem with it. I think I bought it from Natchez.
Just use H335 load data and work up slowly from a starting load.
One of the better powders I've used for accuracy and it meters great too.

[mudpig]

I've got WC846 and love it for 223 and 308 loads. Meters great and very good accuracy. A bit temp sensitive tho.

[darkker]

So here's the history of "those" powders.

WC 846 is in fact a very old powder (per original patent), mid 1930's roughly. Surplus WC846 is what Hodgdon called Bl-C, then when they bought the second (not WWI surplus) lot, they called it Bl-C(2). Per it's original patent, it was around before the 308, despite hodgy's claims.

Fast forward to the development of the 5.56, and the testing done by (IIRC, Pic) and the hundreds of thousands of rounds tested for claims of "plugged gas tubes". WC846 had a couple lots tested which had slightly less acid stabilizer (CaCO2) in it. By slightly, I mean less that 0.25% less. However this wasn't a designed difference, it's simply a fact of mass production, and things never being perfectly homogeneous. Olin decided to voluntarily segregate WC 846 by stabilizer amounts, for storage clarification they called the lower variant WC844.
Again remember they made WC846, and decided to segregate internally. Still believe Hodgdon when they said H335 was designed for the 223?
Similarly, when Hodgdon "brought us" CFE223, many of us had been shooting surplus SMP842 for over a decade already. It wasn't a "new" development, and the base tin compounds were a discovery from the French around 1900; you can read about it in Hatcher's Notebook.

As far as loading it. Remember that Hodgdon silently swaps suppliers regularly, and don't list any nominal standards, as they blend various lots and surplus stuff. Simply start low and carefully work up.

As far as something being pressure sensitive, that's a case by case basis. There is no such thing as a temp stable powder, in every setting. Dr. Denton Bramwell did some very good pressure testing work in the 5.56 with Bl-C(2) against Varget. Whole both powders are capable of fine accuracy in that case, the numbers show Varget to be the steaming pile of sensitivity. Which should surprise no one, given Thales designed Varget to be stable loaded in 7.62 ball ammo. Another tidbit that Hodgdon fails to mention...

Cheers