Attorney, Product Liability

[Appleseed]

There are two welder/fabricators in this area that manufacture shooting benches, and they are both very good ones. One is a portable folding table/bench and the other is a minimalist aluminum or stainless portable seat/rifle cradle. Talked with one welder today, he says he only sells locally without advertising because of product liability insurance being required, and it's a lot of money for a policy.

I haven't run it by an attorney, but any table/bench is an accessory imo, not a gun part. Anyone familiar with the rules/laws to produce a product and offer it for sale as a shooting manufactured item?

[yobuck]

Rules/laws can vary from state to state and even municipalities within states.
Some requiring licensing to operate businesses and liability insurance on the business.
AND, workman’s compensation insurance on employees including yourself, unless the local law permits exempting yourself.
All of it is just another form of taxing, and has little to do with actually protecting people.
If you have any amount of personal assets, they could be vulnerable should anybody sue you for any reason of coarse.
If a $1000 scope was damaged because the gun fell off the bench you built, would you be liable?
Or if somebody was shot with a gun sitting on a bench you built?
No in most peoples opinion, but you would still lose considerably trying to prove that just by defending yourself.
If any of that concerns you I’d be talking with an attorney, otherwise just build the things and hope you sell them.
My vote would be to do just that.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

"If a $1000 scope was damaged because the gun fell off the bench you built, would you be liable?"

Hell no BUT, some shyster ambulance chasing low life attorney looking to make a killing would be going after you and yours for as much (and more) as he could get. If you build, go LLC and CYA.

What is it when you have 10000 lawyers at the bottom of the Ocean? A good start!

Spill a cup of "hot coffee on your lap", (because you're dumb) then run and get yourself a hot $hot ambulance cha$er. That's the way it's done.

[Phreddie30.06]

LLC is the way to go.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[sharpshooter]

Playing by everyone else's rules will insure you're the only one NOT making any money. If you get a product liability policy, you are only wagering that someone IS going to sue you. Once you buy the policy, you have just put the odds in their favor, because now there is something tangible up for grabs. Life is a risky business.

[yobuck]

"If a $1000 scope was damaged because the gun fell off the bench you built, would you be liable?"

Hell no BUT, some shyster ambulance chasing low life attorney looking to make a killing would be going after you and yours for as much (and more) as he could get. If you build, go LLC and CYA.

What is it when you have 10000 lawyers at the bottom of the Ocean? A good start!

Spill a cup of "hot coffee on your lap", (because you're dumb) then run and get yourself a hot $hot ambulance cha$er. That's the way it's done.

They do it because they can, and so would others among us if they could.
It’s just less costly in the long run for the insurance companies to pay and pass along the cost by way of premiums to the insured.
Bottom line is were the ones who pay, and since most states are run by lawyers elected to government, the laws ain’t about to change.
It’s all part of the swamp, and we can see how anxious the politicians are to clean it up.
Obviously the Clintons felt that a charitable trust was better than an LLC, maybe because at least in their case, they got to pick the charity which wasent liable for anything.
For sure any decent lawyer would know.
Again, I’d just build them, and I wouldn’t be expecting a path beaten to my door by all the big spenders wanting to buy them.

[Robinhood]

Shooting bench or outdoorsmans table.

[Appleseed]

Shooting bench or outdoorsmans table.

Ah yes Robinhood.

I have a state license and certification managed by a federal ruling body and perhaps one of the strongest regulated states for practice. Both require liability ins. NC doesn't require me as a sole employee to have workman's comp. I've talked to a good long time attorney friend. All these suggestions made are good ones, there could be that one a**hole on a mission to destroy. My real businesses were set up as a solecorp, but attorneys suggest LLC.

Two machine shops here make several tables but only sell them by word of mouth, they still sell a 100/yr together. Never thought I'd sell a bunch, something to get me in the welding shop again in off months.

Thanks

[yobuck]

That many benches would be a whole lot of benches to sell in a year. Pa no doubt has one of the earliest populations of long range hunters in the country.
Virtually all of them use a bench when shooting due mainly to the steep uneven terrain where most of that type hunting takes place.
NC, VA, WV, and the western sections of both MD and GA all contain the same mountain range as PA and all would offer good opportunity for long range hunting. Problem with many places however is access to suitable locations to hunt due to private ownership of the land. BUT, potential for selling your product is there. Over the many years I’ve been involved in that type hunting, Ive known 3 different people who built benches to sell. All did a very nice job, but I don’t think all 3 ever sold that many combined.
Reason is simple, everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who can weld.
And it don’t need to be pretty in order to get the job done.
Hell mines not pretty either, and i paid to have the welding done. Lol
Sooner or later most bench shooting hunters will come to realize that the bench alone isn’t enough. It requires a total system designed specifically for the situation for best results, especially in the steep mountainous wooded terrain in the east.
And the guy we know who knows somebody who can weld, cant build that.
Just take a look at where the trend has gone for the rests used at the 1000 yd benchrest matches. What are many of the consistent winners using? And what would many others be using if they could?

[Robinhood]

Pa no doubt has one of the earliest populations of long range hunters in the country.

Are we including rifled black powder rifles?

[yobuck]

Are we including rifled black powder rifles?

Not sure about that, never got involved myself and not sure how many others did.
I know a guy from Kansas who killed an Elk at 600 + yards with one of those, so for sure it’s being done.
Im simply referring to people who glass hillsides all day or other places offering long shot opportunities.
Not really much difference from long range varmit hunting at least till the shooting starts.
And yes i know, it should always start and end at the same time. Lol

[Robinhood]

I was thinking more about Uncle John Sedgwick

[Appleseed]

The two other benches made locally are truly portable, these guys shoot small game matches so i'm guessing they walk, setup, shoot and they sell a bunch of them by going to the matches and don't advertise. They shoot some heavy rifles, we also have two custom target pistol builders in this backwoods county, this place never ceases to surprise me with talent.

The bench we built is more like your big table yobuck, it's more suited for setting up quickly for a day of shooting on the range vs a hunting rig. That tripod stand you sent a picture of is a real piece of machinery!

[Robinhood]

Yobucks stuff is for real

[yobuck]

The two other benches made locally are truly portable, these guys shoot small game matches so i'm guessing they walk, setup, shoot and they sell a bunch of them by going to the matches and don't advertise. They shoot some heavy rifles, we also have two custom target pistol builders in this backwoods county, this place never ceases to surprise me with talent.

The bench we built is more like your big table yobuck, it's more suited for setting up quickly for a day of shooting on the range vs a hunting rig. That tripod stand you sent a picture of is a real piece of machinery!

i
I don’t think i sent you a pic of the latest and best. Lol
Again, successful long range hunting isn’t all about the best guns and excellent shooting.
It’s about getting it done, and that can happen by average shooters using the right equipment.
Later today since I’ve changed my mind about fishing, I’ll send you a few more.

[Appleseed]

Got those yobuck, thanks very much.

[yobuck]

Got those yobuck, thanks very much.

The tripod on the most recent sent is military, and surprisingly light considering the appearance.
I doubt the whole setup weighs over 25#.
The top design is based upon improvements of our other benches and tripods (for our particular use,) and rotates 360 deg.
But i had nothing to do with any of the actual work on that except cutting the aluminum top to the shape and size i wanted with a jig saw.
Most was done by a good machinist who also builds some of the brackets for the glasses we use.
The top part lifts off the tripod, and breaks down into individual sections for easier storage in a vehicle, and can be set up in a couple minits.
We do level the top with a small 12” level when setting it up by using the tripod legs in order to eliminate reticle cant.
If you can post a pic of that latest tripod, and maybe ones showing the glasses it might answer questions in some minds about this.