Reply With QuoteAny of the 110's, forget the Axis because you never know when or if the funky FP springs will fail. Aftermarket support is far better for the 110/10 action too.
Got this cartridge on the brain. Thinking about a rifle for that trip to Alaska for caribou. I've been tossing around the different models.
110 ultra lite
110 long range hunter
110 hunter
110 storm
110 timberline
Axis 2 stainless
Axis 2 overreach
Which would you pick or add your own and why?
The untralite looks like the cream of the crop but the long range hunter would give you some extra speed. But stainless would prob be better for a couple weeks in crap weather. Axis line shoots pretty good and a stainless axis is a lot cheaper than the storm...
Any of the 110's, forget the Axis because you never know when or if the funky FP springs will fail. Aftermarket support is far better for the 110/10 action too.
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
How long range?
The ultra lite is a dang nice rifle. I have some time behind a 6.5creed in that platform.
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110 ultralight. Out of the box best option.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Id start with a trued up action, have a good quality 26” barrel fit and chambered to it, then probably a good quality glass stock.
Id also have a good backpac like say an Eberlystock, with a rifle scabbard feature.
In that would be a very good quality set of at least 10x50 binoculars with a built in rangefinder.
You could also get by with a separate lazer rangefinder.
I would also have a good quality 3 section walking stick like say a Bogen, for supporting the glasses while glassing, and the gun when shooting.
A good quality light weight tripod would even be better.
You cant glass for long periods at least well, without supporting your glasses.
And you cant range well without supporting the rangefinder.
Regardless of all the cool dude photos that imply otherwise.
And you might find that due to the terrain sitting while shooting might be a better option than prone/bipod.
But the backpac would hold a bipod also.
When hunting, especially at longer distances, there are things other than the gun that become very important.
Originally Posted by yobuck
I though about posting something similar yobuck. Then i started thinking about getting a good stock within 3 or 4 months. The hit or miss on smooth actions etc...That lead me to removing Savage as the most viable option. A bighorn Origin or TL3 fits the bill. Available, already trued, can use Savage barrels, Remington footprint(stock selection and availability) and triggers and interchangeable bolt heads.
From a "build" perspective, This is the way to go.
Action:
$975 Plus shipping and handling etc.
Barrel :
Proof Carbon Fiber $800.
X Caliber: $400
Trigger"
TT: $200 Plus or minus
Used Remington: $45
Stock:
Tons of options: $350 to $800
$1800 on the low end.
Optics: (not impacted by the rifles cost)
NF NXS $2000
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Well for me id be starting with an old doner 700 Rem i already own.
So that would eliminate the need for a trigger also.
The total for the barrel and ( gunsmith ) for sure wouldnt exceed 1000 dollars.
As for the stock i wouldnt even object to using the factory wood stock for that type gun.
Ive bought new F/G take offs on Ebay very reasonably also.
24” would probably work for the barrel, but id personaly opt for a 26” with that cartridge.
If you want it to perform similar to a 7 Rem Mag, you need the barrel imop.
As for the scope, i do in fact own a Nightforce NXS, and my son owns 2 of them.
Admittedly they are a very good scope.
Possibly for what you use them for they are worth the money.
But frankly for what i use them for i question wether they are.
Over many years of doing what we do, weve had lots of success using just basic VX3 Leupold scopes.
Fact is the guy can take pretty much any gun/scope on that trip he wants and probably get what he went for.
Just dont cheat on the glasses.
Your right. If you 3/4 of the components sitting around you can build a lot cheaper. I thought I was following somewhat of a path that might compromise the OP's desire for a new rifle, getting something high quality but a slightly different path. I chose the NXS for a spot and stalk rifle. A little heavy but a trek in the wilderness differs from your setup. Not discounting the skill and experience you and the hunting friends have. The durability and all that comes with the NXS model makes it great for packing in a long range rifle. The NXS leaves little on the table for want. Very good glass, tracks well enough and tough. If I had the experience you have I might make use of the VX3 but I would probably step up to the VX5.
Also having a spare action ready to go didn't sound like was something he had on shelf. If you didn't have an action laying around then acquiring a Remington and getting it near the quality of the origin it would be more than the cost of the custom. You still would not have the ability to swap bolt heads if you wanted to go magnum later. I am not the only one here that has built a dozen or more Savages that has stepped up to the Custom Action platform due to the shortcomings of the 110. Jims advice a few years back with regards to leaving the Savage you bought alone was, as i later figured, out was smart. I am not that guy because i need everything to work flawlessly. So I keep putting time into them smoothing and truing and fixing PE and trigger timing and feeding issues.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
The 110 Storm would be my choice given the OP's intended use.
The rifle is SS and weatherproof with metal bottom parts instead of the cheap plastic bottom parts used by Savage on other models to shave weight. The Accufit-Accustock is also weatherproof and adjustable to the shooter. It is about the same weight as similar aftermarket composite stocks. The 22" factory sporter barrel will give you all the speed and muzzle energy you'll need for caribou. Any longer or fatter barrel just adds unnecessary weight that you don’t need to carry around. If you reload, a Savage 110 Storm in 280AI should easily shoot sub 1 inch MOA, or minute of caribou out to an effective range of 600+ yds. My Savage pet 280AI load with IMR 7828 SSC and Hornady 162 gr. ELD-X bullets gives me a MV of 2,960 fps and slightly under 1,500 ft. lbs. of energy at 650 yds. That is better than the MV advertised on a box of factory Hornady Precision Hunter premium ammo in 7mm RM which use the same ELD-X bullet.
Well if i wanted to go up to a magnum size case later, i would simply go back to my gunsmith and have him open up the bolt face on the 700 action.
I wouldnt however consider using that action for the lapua size case as they are doing with the 300 norma.
I do agree with you on the custom actions assuming there are no budget constraints.
My first ever long range build in the early 70s was on a new Hart #4 custom single shot action with a magnum bolt face.
It was also a sleeved action which allowed for the 1.250 straight taper barrel to fit thru it and into the action.
Its main purpose was getting the scope mounting blocks off the barrel.
Hart actions were 308 length, but i was using a 300 Weatherby case.
I later had my smith open the back of the loading port so i could get cases in and out without pulling the bolt.
It was the most accurate gun i have owned to date, and no doubt the action contributed to it.
I later used the same action for a 378 diameter case without changing the bolt face size.
We simply turned down the case head just like they later did with the 300 ultra case.
Fact is thats exactly what i had, about 20 years before it actually existed. lol
Well with that velocity it should perform better.
Ive been using 162 gr Hornady bullets in my 7mms since the early 70s.
But im using the HPBT match, which ive recently heard has been discontinued.
No mater, i still have 8 or 9 hundred of them.
That bullet underwent several minor design changes over the years since it was first introduced.
The original BC # when first introduced in about 1970, was 725.
I only have one full box of those left.
The second generation about 4 years later had a BC# of 100 less than the original, and you can easily see the difference between the bullets.
But i did stock up on those.
My old Rem 7 mag with a 24” barrel would produce just about the same velocity as you are getting with a load of 65 gr 4831.
I think you guys might be missing the OP's issue. Sounds like he needs an 'out of the box' gun for a hunting trip that will happen soon. If so, and he can find those rifles in stock then that might be the best way to go.
The advantage to custom is you can probably get an action and barrel now if the OP is capable of putting them together. I'd certainly opt for the Rem700 action footprint if building a 'no holds barred' rifle.
Id be willing to bet that the OP dosent really have an issue Charlie.
He wouldnt be planning a trip like that if he were a total green horn planning his first trip.
For sure he already has a good gun he could use if need be.
Agreed. People are consistently reporting outstanding experiences with this rifle. I see no reason not to get it if you're in the market for a .280AI
I very nearly bought one myself until I decided to fit a .284 Win into a LWS short action instead.
One of the reasons people do savage builds is to eliminate hundreds or thousands off the cost of a semi custom gun. If you choose to go back and forth to the gunsmith when changing bolt faces go for it. I like Remington's. I don't like the idea of paying someone to do work than could be done by me...but that also brings me satisfaction.
The custom actions are being machined with such close tolerances you can actually buy a shouldered prefit that will bolt up to and headspace every action of the same nomenclature. Semi custom rifles have become modular.
To get a 700 action to the level of a Bighorn Origin you will have double the money in it. Side bolt release, control round feed, a with standing ejector, interchangeable bolt heads and completely true(square and concentric)... Frugal people or other wise capable people see no reason to pay someone a large chunk of money for a compromise. Just like modifying a side by side or a car truck. You can pay someone to mount all the little bolt ons, or you can do what you can yourself. If that is not your cup of tea then by all means drop your rifle off at the smith and pick it up in 6 months. Tip him please because most of them have a hard time making it on their rates, My opinion is they are worth 100 dollars an hour. I can't afford that.
You do realize you are the ultimate in the straw man argument.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Well i dont change my guns around just because something new came along.One of the reasons people do savage builds is to eliminate hundreds or thousands off the cost of a semi custom gun. If you choose to go back and forth to the gunsmith when changing bolt faces go for it. I like Remington's. I don't like the idea of paying someone to do work than could be done by me...but that also brings me satisfaction.
The custom actions are being machined with such close tolerances you can actually buy a shouldered prefit that will bolt up to and headspace every action of the same nomenclature. Semi custom rifles have become modular.
To get a 700 action to the level of a Bighorn Origin you will have double the money in it. Side bolt release, control round feed, a with standing ejector, interchangeable bolt heads and completely true(square and concentric)... Frugal people or other wise capable people see no reason to pay someone a large chunk of money for a compromise. Just like modifying a side by side or a car truck. You can pay someone to mount all the little bolt ons, or you can do what you can yourself. If that is not your cup of tea then by all means drop your rifle off at the smith and pick it up in 6 months. Tip him please because most of them have a hard time making it on their rates, My opinion is they are worth 100 dollars an hour. I can't afford that.
You do realize you are the ultimate in the straw man argument.
The cartridges ive been using are as good as it gets for what i do.
So i really havent had all that much need over the years for gunsmithing services.
Most of the guns i own are factory guns, including some Savages.
I dont shoot barrels out because i dont shoot them just for something to do.
And when i do i dont shoot the ones that are hard on barrels.
I have had the bolt faces opened up on a few guns with Rem or Rem type bolts.
But i never had any desire to reverse it at a later time.
Building guns is not my hobby, so for what little work i need done ill pay for it and have it done right.
Dont get me wrong, im not completly helpless as for working on guns.
But while were on the subject, ive done one build with a Savage where i took a model 11 243 to a 6.5 WSM.
The gun shot very well, thanks to a good barrel and chamber job.
I had bought all new magazine parts, but that part was still a nightmare.
When i got it fixed, guess what, that gun went down the road quick.
I only wish i had removed the SS trigger before it did.
Now on the other hand years earlier i had traded my 7 rem mag with custom stock to a camp member who loved it.
I took his rem 700 bdl in 270 in trade.
I took it to my gunsmith for a conversion to a 300 Wetherby case necked to 7mm in a heavy sporter configuration.
He opened up the bolt face and installed a Sako type extractor.
Of coarse installed another barrel which i had, and also did a new laminated thumbhole stock.
We did nothing to the original magazine, nothing.
Yet it holds 3 rounds of the much larger cartridge and feeds flawlessly.
Of coarse the bullets need to be loaded to fit the magazine.
I of coarse realize where i am here, so ill say no more about my opinions.
It still looks like he wants a new in the box rifle ready to go hunting. Not an assembly project or something a gunsmith could handle.
Having a gunsmith handy is not a common thing. Yep, we had a good friend who was one and he would put our work in front of others if we asked. Sadly he passed a few years ago. The only other gunsmith around I'd trust a good rifle to is backed up for months. Not useful if I wanted to go hunting this year.
Somebody "Get's It".
At almost 69 my days of Caribou hunting may remain a thing of the past but the last thing I want is a gun that weighs 9 pounds to lug around on the Tundra. A scope under 22oz would be my goal. I don't know of anyone who has shot a Caribou past 300 yards.
They are not hard to kill and for deer sized animals 1.5 MOA is just fine.
I have a couple ultralites, long range hunter, a couple regular model 110 and 11's, and a lightweight hunter. I think if i was to go on a hunt where i would be putting a lot of miles on my boots and possibly with a decent amount of elevation change i would eliminate the longrange hunter because of the weight, and the axis models because if something happens it isn't as easy to get parts that are on hand. That said, i think the Ultralites are just fantastic. The melonite coating is supposed to be less friction, but it sure seems not to be the case with mine. cycling the bolt a few hundred times while sitting on the couch seems to have smoothed it out a lot. I have had zero issues with either of my ultralites and both of them are as accurate as my proof barrelled bighorn TL3 and proof barrelled Zermatt Origin. To me accuracy is paramount and the ultralites are impressiveI am not saying that they are as smooth or reliable feeding as a custom action, but for hunting, they work great, and i couldn't imagine seeing one of my custom actions sliding down a ravine or a mountain.
In short, i would take the Ultralite number 1, and the Storm (not lightweight storm) #2 for such a momentous trip. Have FUN!!!
Good choice on the 280ai, i really like it a lot. I have one in a Kimber Classic select with a 24" barrel and i shoot 168 ABLR's at 2840 FPS with respectable accuracy, and since i am not hot rodding it, the recoil is pretty mild. I didn't want it to get too wild in a 6 pound rifle. I have taken mine out to 800yards twice and rang the MOA steel targets more than 75% of the time. I think it fits right in between my 7x57 and 7mm Rem Mag speed wise, It is just right!
None of above.
If you want a rifle to pack, the #1 choice would be the SIG crossfire in 277 Fury, 2nd place to the Kimber Adirondack in any chambering.
I have a Fury on backorder. It is the ultimate "walk about" rifles, 270 WCF performance in 16" bbl with my GEMTECH ONE in the backpack.
Currently my Adirondack with the perfect NightForce 2.5-10x32 (discontinued) in 6.5 Creedmore suffices.
If what you say is true there will never be any ammo on the shelves because everyone will have one. Fortunately for other rifle manufacturers, not everyone feels the same way. I know of a couple of Marine snipers and a couple of more army/CC spec ops guys that are not that impressed with that system. The Sig Fury as a personal rifle that is. Of coarse none of them would have a Savage either.
All of them like the M40A1 and the M24 in 300 winmag.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
As i said to Charlie, the OP has it figured out even before his post.
For sure he wont go wrong with the cartridge he chose.
The 280 AI is a good round. I have owned two. But for a "walk-about" rifle it offers nothing that an inexpensive older 700 in 7mm RemMag will not do. An early minty stainless 26" bbled 7mm Remmag will blow away any 280 AI for less money than any Savage.
As for ex snipers, dollar to a dime neither has ever seen, not to mention shot a 277 Fury or Adirondack. You want to drag around an M40 or M24, bless you. 10 pounds all up.
My last 280 AI that w/a 28" bbl was no longer than a typical 24" 7 mag bolt gun and as fast too.
I am sure we all agree that a 7mm rem mag is faster than a 280ai.The 280 AI is a good round. I have owned two. But for a "walk-about" rifle it offers nothing that an inexpensive older 700 in 7mm RemMag will not do. An early minty stainless 26" bbled 7mm Remmag will blow away any 280 AI for less money than any Savage.
As for ex snipers, dollar to a dime neither has ever seen, not to mention shot a 277 Fury or Adirondack. You want to drag around an M40 or M24, bless you. 10 pounds all up.
My last 280 AI that w/a 28" bbl was no longer than a typical 24" 7 mag bolt gun and as fast too.
I think we all agree that a 280ai will have less recoil than a 7mm rem mag with the same weight gun and the same projectile.
i think it is pretty obvious that a used Remington should be cheaper than a new savage (if that is what you are saying).... but what about a used Savage?
You seem to be out to prove something, but i am not really sure what it is you are trying to prove.
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