Reply With QuoteDave, some have used a washer under the stock bas screw to move it back to avoid machining the screw.Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Not sure I follow. What washer are you referring to? The BAS is the screw. (BAS = Bolt Assembly Screw). What other screw is the reference? The BAS must be shortened, otherwise the extra length of the plate & BB would preload the firing pin spring WAY to much! Possibly even bind the coils.
Dave, some have used a washer under the stock bas screw to move it back to avoid machining the screw.
Yes - a washer to move the BAS back the thickness of the pieces that were added internally.
Here is an example of a washer behind the BAS. A "Shnazzy" version.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Ok, yes...I got ya. Was just tripped up on the wording, sorry. I’ve seen that in the PTG Kit. It’s the “lazy” way. No benefit either way. I just don’t like adding things that don’t need to be there.
Like Tungsten plugs in the BAS?
THE PTG kit does not have a spacer. It has a flat piece on top of the Sleave and a pointed screw in the BAS.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
LOL! You know what I meant Robin. But nice “get” on me, haha.
Sorry..let me expound. I meant EXTRA parts on the outside that don’t need to be there except for not wanting to complete a task. As shortening the bolt. But I’ll say, the one you showed is nice. Can’t even see the spacer! Did you do that?
What do you think?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Very nice machining. Oh wait.... is that the same one with the swept back bolt you made?
I agree with what you said... “Shnazzy”! Can’t see any separation between the bolt & washer. Way outta my league! I make functional parts with “ok” machining finish. But my machining is novice compared to that!
In in other words.. I like it. Great stuff my friend.
LOL Dave, You are more full of it than me.
It was just a different approach. Tried several versions including one like the PT&G and then a version with a rolling ball end set screw. Nothing like the exotic metals you use though. The 4140 is close to 30 RC and the balls are like 60 .
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Is it worth drilling and tapping the .357 case to use a set screws with a ball that turns like the one above?LOL Dave, You are more full of it than me.
It was just a different approach. Tried several versions including one like the PT&G and then a version with a rolling ball end set screw. Nothing like the exotic metals you use though. The 4140 is close to 30 RC and the balls are like 60 .
Sorry JKV45, The BAS is drilled and tapped(this is a 6mm screw) in a collet, in the lathe. It could probably be done a couple of ways but it must be on center and concentric! The flat surface is machined out of round stock to fit in the sleeve like the case does . It is kind of reverse from the pistol case setup. The stack height is very low, something like 3/32 or less. If you machine the screw back it can even be a negative number. Be careful with shortening the whole system too much. You don't want the cocking pin in the sleeves entry slot.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Thanks.
Oh...well I apologize. I’m not purposefully trying to be full of anything. Sorry
When I added My 38 spcl & ball, the added length was .079”. I took that amount off the back of the cocking sleeve. It works fine.
Did I do wrong ?
The only thing you could have done was weaken or distort the sleeve. If you didn't, I can't see why it would be wrong. .079 is thin. Must have used a 5/32 ball.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I just completed doing the .357 case with a 5/32 ball "lift kit" mod, and used a brass washer to space the BAS to compensate for the case/ball thickness. I didn't want to make a permanent change quite yet, so that's why I used a washer instead of removing material from the BAS.
As far as improvement goes, I wouldn't say it's dramatic. The tests (https://www.savageshooters.com/conte...Bolt-Lift-Kits) done with the single bearing showed about a 2 in/lb reduction to 18 in/lb from the stock 20 in/lb cocking effort - a 10% reduction.
That's just about what I would estimate the reduction was (10%). Not bad, but not that significant IMO.
You are correct. The lift kit alone helps, but won’t make it like mine is now. Other items are an extended bolt handle, polishing the ramp & softening the top edge of the bolt, where the cocking pin travels, and adjusting cocking pin .080” OFF the edge @ bottom travel. All these together will give a very smooth, and easily operated bolt with minimal effort. I do have a modified firing pin spring as well, although I’m looking for replacement other than clipped stock spring.
Another thing guys...I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I know so much of this has been done by others. These are simply little projects I do to occupy the bit of time I may have from day to day, without mind numbing pain. That’s all. None of this is to sell as we talked of, it’s just not cost effective. Machining Titanium & Tungsten is major PITA! But has a “coolness” factor is all.
I’m no professional manufacturer guys. I don’t have a business or even an FFL. I’m just a pretty darn capable gunsmith/builder and machinist. A hobbyist....but it’s all I do! I like sharing what I know & can do, with other enthusiasts.
Thank you Dave. I appreciate the information and knowledge that you and others pass along at no gain for yourself.
I have the extended bolt handle, but need to learn a bit more about the additional mods. Do you know of a good link or article covering the others? I looked at the ramp and it didn't look rough. I don't want to overdue the grinding on the edge/peak of the ramp. Do you get the .080" off the edge by rotating the ring that the cocking collar engages?
Sure seems a lot of the force required is from fighting the firing pin spring pressure. I'd be interested in a lighter spring if one was located. I'm hesitant to start snipping the original spring or making changes that cannot be easily reversed.
^ Then You can do what I did ^ I ordered a replacement firing pin & spring from Midway, in case My plans didn’t work out. I cut 2 1/2 coils off the original firing pin spring. This, plus smoothing, polishing, and the 38spl lift addition, made a world of improvement.
Anyone who wants to prove to themselves where the heavy Savage bolt lift comes from, can do so by simply removing the firing pin and spring, reassemble the bolt, and cycle it. It is obvious the spring is the major culprit.
The rifle functions better than ever, and no negatives have been detected.
Thanks - I may have to do that.
Apologies for the delay jkv45. Although I did my own, I would never recommend modifying the spring. As for the cocking piece ramp, this needs a high degree of caution. I only know my own machining abilities & trust them. I will say only you can make the decision, but I always recommend to only do what you KNOW you can, based on your mechanical inclination.
Setting the pin .080” from the edge at bottom travel is accomplished by unscrewing the cocking piece from the firing pin. Doesn’t take much, and use a caliper to get the distance.
Here is a good picture showing the ramp. What I did was soften that “nub” on the corner, & polish the edge(as indicated). And it’s paramount to understand terms like “polish” & “soften”. Any form of metal removal can quickly lead to trouble.
I was the lucky recipient of Dave's double hardened BAS replacement! Just finished playing around with before/after cocking efforts. My bolt has the large OEM tactical handle installed and I used a trigger pull scale on the last notch of the handle to gauge the effort. From that reference point the cocking effort (shell in chamber with firing pin dropped) went from 6lbs to 5.5lbs...so close to the 10% drop that others have seen. Think I will polish the ramp next and see what that does. Thanks Dave!!!
Thanks Dave.
I made the adjustment and carefully worked the ramp, and I'd say it was an improvement.
I haven't cut the firing pin spring, and probably won't right now. An aftermarket spring with closer to optimum rate seems like the next step.
With where I am right now, everything is much improved, but the primary extraction seems to be the main culprit at this point.
If I get “the bump “ right, will it lessen the felt resistance on primary extraction ?
Fortunately, I have 2 spare bolt bodies, just in case ��
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