Reply With QuoteThose are Ben Chappell's(Grimstod Desh)Stuff. I'm interested in how that kit goes. He uses a spacer like I do rather than cutting the BAS. But he uses a thrust bearing rather than a single point contact pivot like most others use.
Has anyone tried these yet? I went in for one, should be here soon so I can report back. He makes them for the axis as well.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/deshindustr...p2047675.l2559
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Savage-Bolt...cAAOSwq05dUTe1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8sVPHnXjMc&t=3s
Those are Ben Chappell's(Grimstod Desh)Stuff. I'm interested in how that kit goes. He uses a spacer like I do rather than cutting the BAS. But he uses a thrust bearing rather than a single point contact pivot like most others use.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I prefer the type that uses the single small bearing in the middle. The less points of contact, the less friction.
I have used the modded 39 special case, but was never happy with how they fit the firing pin sleeve very loosely. So I took a small brass rod a little larger than the sleeve, chucked it up in my lathe and turned it to fit the sleeve perfectly. I made the lip the same thickness as the 38 special case. I then uses a center drill and made a tiny pilot hole in the middle just big enough to hold a tiny bearing ball (had a pack of them left over from something).
It works really great and fits like a glove. My BAS had already been shortened for the modded 38 spl case, so I did not have to do anything with it.
I've heard mixed results from all the other kits you can buy online, so I figured i'd try the newest on the block. I don't have access to any of those tools to make my own with the 38 case and bearing, is there a kit out there I can just buy?
The best way is a T&T from SSS but Kevin Rayhill of Stockade sells these for 15.00
http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/4.html
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
This article was written by Fred (sharpshooter) several years ago when someone else here on the site devised a similar kit using a thrust bearing and was offering to send them out for free for people to try - basically doing his Beta testing for him. That's never a good thing, and in the article linked below he shows how the thrust bearing option isn't as effective as a single point of contact design. That said, for those with the newer guns with the cocking indicator poking through the bolt assembly screw (BAS), the thrust washer style is the easier/cheaper solution.
Fred is also the one who came up with the kit using the .38 Spl case with a detent ball epoxied into the primer pocket as a bolt lift kit (basically the same thing as what Kevin Rayhill sells at Stockade)
https://www.savageshooters.com/conte...Bolt-Lift-Kits
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
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I used one similar to what RH posted above from a different source.
Interesting. The ones I made are pretty much exactly like that, except the ball bearing is smaller and does not stick out quite that far.Originally Posted by Robinhood
I also tried one of these from a different source, and swapping it across 4 separate rifles could not tell a bit of difference.
FTR in 223, BA LE Tactical in 308, 110 Flatback in CBI 6mmBR Norma, Others
Something to think about, If you add a bolt lift kit without shortening the BAS or adding a spacer, you have increased spring compression. Often this increases the force required to lift the bolt. Self defeating.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
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Well, it arrived and I installed it. I cant really tell the difference lol. I'm pretty sure its SLIGHTLY lighter. Worth $25? Idk, maybe? If you want a light bolt lift, get a Tikka lol.
I'll do some more evaluation with the kit installed and not. Removing the BAS was a *****.
For older Savage rifles without the cocking indicator, the Lambeth bolt lift kit is pretty hard to beat. Not expensive, easy to install and adjust.
http://customgunsandammunition.com/L...itPricing.html
Here is a view of what they look like, although no longer available from Pacific Tool and Die.
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/1998-...-o-handle.html
I have a couple of the Lambeth models, several 38 cal DIY's and they all work well enough, although I think the Lambeth results in the most bolt lift force reduction.
Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.
FWIW, there are several other factors that when addressed will also lighten bolt lift in a Savage 10,11,12 action. Starting by cleaning out all the preservative (if you've not already done that), polishing the surfaces inside the bolt that move relative to each other, like the Cocking sleeve, cocking nut and cocking piece, cocking ramp, firing pin shaft at the first thread aft of, and along the flat. Lube lightly with a good oil such as Hobo Oil, and back the cocking nut off several turns so that the cocking piece is about .08 off the bottom of the cocking pin window, or just follow the instructions on the lambeth website.
Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.
Can confirm, I just cleaned the entire bolt assembly, and backed the cocking nut 4 revolutions. That made more of a difference than the kit, it feels half as light now. Might be in combination of them all, idk. Will need to get the dremel out for some nice polishing.
I'm not real big fan on backing the screw off that much for a reason. You are reducing the firing pin travel. If you notice the bolt handle travels further before the cocking piece pin begins to engage the cocking ramp.
In my own experience i have seen accuracy affected. This may not be true for everyone but I would rather keep the approximately .250" travel and lighten the preload on the firing pin spring. 2 ways to do that. Thicker spacer or shorten the BAS. You can also grind .010-.015 from the firing pin spring diameter with a mandrel on a belt sander. The last suggestion is not for rookie Savagesmiths.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
According to Physics... the single small BB offers the least surface area. So in theory, the least rotational effort. Also, the harder the surfaces, the better. I made my own using an Si3N4 (Silicone Nitride) BB. I would like to incorporate Tungsten Carbide as the surface against which the BB turns, but have had no luck finding anything inexpensiven . (Would require having a company manufacturer)
It certainly helps, but there is more to do in order to achieve effortless lift. Relieving the Cocking Piece Pin Ramp in the bolt body helps tremendously! But it’s very easy to go to far. Don’t attempt unless you have a firm understanding of machining/fabrication.
Ive been meaning to make a little video showing my rifles Action now. Can easily lift the bolt, AFTER pulling the trigger, with one finger. And of course without holding the rifle with the other hand. (Those who know me, know I don’t have the other hand to hold down anyway!)
I for one am interested in that Video.
Most of this doesn't matter to the majority of shooters until they wonder why, after fiddling with there rifles it fails to fire or does not shoot as well as it once did. For the sake of newer guys that are reading technical post like this.....
If you alter the ramp incline, you would move the cocking pin shelf towards the base of the ramp (you would have to in order to alter the ramp incline) you will very quickly find that you have a cock on close(Trigger Timing) issue. There is a reason Savage designed everything to work for a firing pin that travels .250" plus or minus.
There are many things effected when you make one change on the action of your Savage. Some machining is used in concert to bring things back to smooth function without any negative effects.
Just like facing the lug abutments, the rear of the bolt head lugs effects primary extraction, adjusting the ramp or adjusting the cocking piece can have negative effects. Some manifest to the extreme and some are not even noticeable. It helps to be aware of the potential undesirable effects of changes so when they do arise you know why..
I have seen where people do not understand trigger timing and attempt to file the edges of the bolt head in an attempt to smooth closing out, this only makes matters worse. The other thing the reduction of firing pin travel. Savage firing pins have a mass and it takes a powerful spring and a 1/4 inch of travel to optimize the primer strike. There is a lot of knowledge from an engineering/physics standpoint and I am only a student of it. Fred Moreo is as are many others are, very knowledgeable with Savage actions and he could give us an education on the topic.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Sorry Robin, I should have said that better. I don’t alter the “ramp” itself. When the firing pin is “cocked”(ready to fire), the cocking piece rests on a flat shelf. But before being released and traveling down the ramp, the cocking piece must overcome a slight incline of the flat area. Those who don’t understand, look at your bolt and it’s quite clear. Overcoming this little raised bit by the cocking piece is a big portion of the heavy “lift” we feel. All I’m doing is removing a slight amount of that raised bit.
But it as I said, don’t do it unless you completely understand the entire function here! That little raised section is a safety margin intended to keep the cocking piece from slipping off the shelf area and down the ramp.(resulting in the firing pin actuating) It is very easy to take too much off here. But, done correctly, and you are rewarded with much improved bolt lift action.
Let me know if I understand what your saying. Beginning in the fired position the cocking piece pin at the bottom of the cocking ramp. When you lift the bolt handle up 90 degrees, the cocking pin climbs the ramp pulling the firing pin rearward providing about a 1/4 of an inch in spring compression when at the open position.
Once the handle is in the up position or cocked, the cocking pin sits on the relief at the top of the cocking ramp. The small elevated portion of the relief( the tit) holds the pin from sliding the pin out of the up position where hopefully the trigger would catch it. It also mechanically moves the sear slightly forward from the trigger step to insure that the sear will be set as the sear moves rearward on bolt close. Therefore as the bolt begins its downward rotation the pin rides up the tit and the sear is pushed forward the lugs are moving towards the abutments and as the pin begins to slide down the ramp the sear and the trigger catch Hand-off. At this time(hand-off) the lugs must be engaged with the abutments or it will cock a slight amount on close. this will be felt as a stop somewhere after the bolt handle begins its downward path.
Smoothing out the tit only aids in the smoothing out the initial downward movement of the bolt closing.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Robin I think i agree with Dave on this one. By taking the top off this tit that is less "over cocking".
By bringing the whole shelf down (small amount at a time) also decreases overcocking. This can be watched by checking bolt closing when the cocking pin catches the sear.
Taking the shelf down too much results in scrap bolt body (don't ask). This does not affect pin fall as pin measurement and sear to pin stop are not affected.
I'm sure sharpshooter will be glad to enlighten us on this again.��
I don't have a problem with reducing that hump, I am stating that I don't believe it lessens cocking effort. You might impact the last 5 degrees( Totally random number) but your not going to reduce cocking effort. If you back off on the cocking piece you have not lessened the lift you are delaying the engagement of the cocking piece pin. If you are relying on the reduction of that hump to alter amount the firing pin is cocked, I believe you are barking up the wrong tree.
I could be wrong. I didn't make that up though. Lots of custom actions are the same way. My post was based on the study of actions and what there makers do to solve issues.
I do believe the Savage could be over sprung but I am not sure I am in the Over cocked camp. If I'm wrong it would not be the first time.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Agree Robinhood, I realize the cocking force is the same, just a reduction of duration of lift. What trimming the hump and "lowering" the shelf does is reduces the distance it takes before the sear resets. If you go too far the sear will not reset.
So what I should have said the cocking stroke will be slightly shorter and the spring won't be compressed much farther than it takes to reset the sear.
Agreed. I do use Kretex on mine to smooth the transition but I don't take much off. Have you ever noticed a change in the close after removing some of the hump? Like a stop where the lugs start to engage?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Quick Vid. Got my daughter to record. I just installed a new PTG bolt today as well. Was working on machining a Titanium firing pin assembly, but getting pushed back. So I just put the stock pin/hardware back in the bolt with the new head. I am very pleased. Smooth, light actuation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDy...ature=youtu.be
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