Jacket separation with Hornady XTP

[borg]

From everything I've noticed, including both target practice and autopsying a pig that I shot at very close range, the jacket separates from the core almost every single time when using Hornady XTP rounds in my .44 mag. The pig was shot with a reduced power load with a bullet speed slow enough to see the round passing through the air. The pig is dead, but I won't be using these rounds anymore for hunting purposes.

I've noticed similar separation of the core and jacket when using Hornady LEVERevolution in my .45-70, but those rounds were shot at a steel target. You can't expect too much out of a bullet in that circumstance.

[borg]

When talking about target practice, I mean primarily rounds gathered from the backstop. However, I also tested my hog load for penetration on a 2x6 and found shed copper jackets several feet behind the target. In the pig, the only part of the bullet recovered was the jacket. The core eluded discovery.

I am updating this thread because when researching this phenomenon I read on a muzzleloading website that shed jackets from Hornady XTP rounds are due to "operator error." I was tempted to stop reading at that point because the stupidity of the phrase was overwhelming, but I soldiered on.** It was explained that loading regular XTPs to magnum velocities would almost ensure bullet failure, so muzzleloaders have the option of purchasing magnum XTPs with a tougher jacket. That does not explain what happened in this case.

Here is what it says about XTPs on Hornady's website:

"Heavier jacket stands up to the high pressures and velocities of the highest performance handgun cartridges."

One would assume then that the bullets would be more than capable of withstanding the lower pressure and velocities associated with Trail Boss. Nope. Total jacket separation using low power rounds out of a 4" barrel.

**Clearly, a rational explanation was given. But it sounded at first like they were accusing the person of shooting the bullet wrong.

[bigedp51]

I don't have a .44 Magnum "BUT" I'm shooting my Hornady XTP bullets out of a No.4 Enfield with a 25 inch barrel. I recovered a few of them and they held together as well as other pistol bullets. I use the Hornady .312 XTP bullets for fire forming my .303 cases with 16 to 18 grains of SR 4759 which launches them between 1400 to 1600 fps.

Could you possibly have gotten a bad batch of bullets with defective jackets or lead cores that were too soft. What is the cylinder bore diameter, the cylinder gap and barrel bore diameter on your .44 Mag you could possibly have a problem with your .44 Mag and overly upsetting the diameter of the bullet during the trip into the barrel.

[img width=580 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP4691.jpg[/img]

[jlcpls]

Lordy, I'm using 240gr XTP's in a S&W 29, Ruger 96/44 and saboted in a ML, and never had a problem with jacket separation.

[scratcherky]

The 240 grain XTP is worthless at close ranges on deer using my muzzle loader. They go to pieces on impact with little or no penetration. This is with only 80 grains of 777 powder.

[Eric in NC]

I have found the XTPs can shed jackets but dead is dead right? With 44 Mag and 45 Colt carbines have never had an XTP fail to make a massive wound channel and pass through deer and small"ish" pigs. Yes I have found jackets and jacket pieces but again - dead is dead.

If you are worried about penetration, go for some Nosler partitions or hard cast lead (I use hard cast Keith bullets in both 44 mag and 45 Colt now - a hole that big punched through the vitals does em in quick and casting bullets with my buddies is an excuse to get together, BS and pretend we are saving money).

[borg]

Dead is dead--I couldn't agree more. 240 grains of lead is going to plow through just about anything at normal handgun velocities, and a good shot virtually guarantees rapid death.

However, being a handloader means being able to tailor your rounds to perform to whatever standards you choose within the capabilities of the cartridge. When I load jacketed hollowpoints, I want them to perform like jacketed hollowpoints, not separate into a lead slug and copper sleeve on impact. Did I kill the pig? I turned it's brains into bloodshot jello. Yeah, it died. My handloads did not fail in that regard. However, I cannot depend on the rounds loaded with XTPs to provide optimum performance each and every time due to the observed problem of jacket separation.

Did fate throw me an inferior lot of these bullets? Perhaps. But having had this experience, it seems to me the simplest way to avoid having it happen again is to switch brands.

[tiny68]

I don't an XTP is design for weight retention. They are design to dissipate of the bullet's energy into that target and make as large of a wound channel as possible. I have shot a couple of deer with my Redhawk and 240 XTPs. I run them at 1450 fps with H110. Never had one get away. Even when a pulled a shot and got behind the lungs. The internal damage to the organs was so great he bleed out with the gut shot in 300-400 yds. He was out of blood. Pretty easy to track a 6-12" wide trail of blood. I've keep shooting them. In fact I loaded a bunch this weekend. Tim

[borg]

That is a good point.

Again, I can't argue with the results of 240 grains of hot lead. And the accuracy was good. In fact, accuracy with Trail Boss is pretty phenomenal. With zero flinch factor, the round goes exactly where you thought it would go. The terminal results revealed by autopsy were impressive. The bullet penetrated the skull and turned the brain into jello. Given the anatomical similarities between people and pigs, I have no doubt that even at the moderate velocities provided by Trail Boss this is an amazing self-defense load.

BUT, that is not a point in Hornady's favor. They designed this bullet to function as a jacketed hollow point, not as a copper sleeve encasing a soft lead core. A 240 gr soft lead wadcutter would have cost less and given me the same result. That's not what I wanted. This isn't about whether or not you can kill something with these bullets. I'm generally the first to point out that dead is dead. Heck, I think the .223 is second only to the .30-30 as my favorite whitetail rifle. Maybe that is why I think a bullet has to perform as promised or I'm switching brands.

This is about the difference between advertisements and reality. Hornady failed in that regard. The XTP does not perform as advertised. Any 240 grain, .44 caliber chunk of lead spit out at magnum velocity is going to whack things hard and leave gaping holes in moderately sized game. But I live in Alaska, and if a bullet doesn't do as promised I can't trust my life to it.