Reply With QuoteThe bolt face on the 110 in 338 Lapua would need changing also, unless you decided on a 300 Norma instead of a 300 Ultra.
As for thoughts, mine would be to start with a different action, like a Mark V Weatherby.
Hi I have a model 111 30-06 thinking about making it a 300 rum or getting the 110 long range 338 and swapping its barrel out
Any thoughts,, ideas or maybe a better way togo about it.
The bolt face on the 110 in 338 Lapua would need changing also, unless you decided on a 300 Norma instead of a 300 Ultra.
As for thoughts, mine would be to start with a different action, like a Mark V Weatherby.
Thanks for the reply. Why would u go with the weatherby
Well first don’t get the idea that I’m trashing Savage actions, because I’m not.Originally Posted by Kdiff
But when we start talking about one of the largest 30 caliber cartridges, or any other large cartridge, i personally think there are better ones to use.
Just because we can, doesn’t always mean we should.
There is a thing that can take place after firing a gun numerous times called (lug setback,) which creates a very dangerous situation called excessive headspace.
Sometimes it’s best to seek the advise of an experienced professional gunsmith for these type decisions, which i am not.
having just built a 338 edge on a savage action, i would suggest a target action in a mag bolt face,
or just start with a rem 700 mag donor.
savage sucks when trying to provide a solid bed and or pillars. the target action might work but not sure if available in a basic mag caliber.
you can read what i did in "inexpensive 2000 yard rifle" in the build section.
( 338 edge is just a 338 version of a 300 rum, kinda sorta)
Since the 338 Edge cartridge has been mentioned, and since it’s parent case is the 300 Ultra Mag, who better to ask your question than the creator of that cartridge?
He is among many other things an accomplished gunsmith who specializes in large cartridge rifles, some being larger than the Edge for the extreme distances.
His name is Shawn Carlock, his company name is Defensive Edge, located in Rathdrum Idaho, phone # 208 687 2659.
I don’t personally know him nor has he ever done any work for me, but he seems to have a very good reputation.
I would urge you to contact him, and please keep us posted as to his opinions/answers to your questions.
I've not heard of any issues of lug setback with RUM and WSM size cases in the Savage action. They are not pushing the action beyond its safety margins. Of course you have to be as careful when working up loads as with any other round or action. Now if you were talking about a Lapua or 378 Weatherby size case, then I would warn against it.
What's your objective with this cartridge? What are you looking to do?
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
For long range elk hunting
Savage makes a 110 long range rifle in a 338 lapua.
[QUOTE=Kdiff;462742]Savage makes a 110 long range rifle in a 338 lapua.[/QUOTE
Yes they do, and if you have been reading the posts here lately you will find that the Administrator (site owner) has stated that there have been lug setback issues with some of them.
As for the 30x378, i used one for about 25 years, so you might say I’m somewhat partial, but fact is there isn’t much difference between it and the 300 Rum other than case dimensions.
That said i also knew a guy who built a 30x378 on a 98 Mauser action.
Do whatever floats your boat, but i can tell you if you ever witness one fly apart due to headspace issues as i have, it will for sure change your opinion on things.
I say go for the Rum if that’s what you want, but spend a little extra on the foundation for it.
Why have one if you cant push it to it’s max as for performance anyway without being worried about it?
Might just as well get a 300 Win Mag and be happy, for sure it will do a good job for you.
Right now I’m pushing 190s at 3400 FPS with the 300 Norma case on a Mark V action.
You could do that with the Rum also, but I wouldn’t be trying it on a Savage action.
Who told you of the lug setback? I'd like to research that. Was it with the factory actions that are designed for the Lapua or another action that someone screwed a barrel in to? The Savage Lapua actions undergo a different heat treatment to make them stronger and have thicker lug recesses. I have not heard of any lug setback issues with them nor have mine given me any trouble. Any action can experience lug setback if someone loads the rounds too hot and doesn't practice safe reloading. Frankly, I've never understood what makes the Weatherby so much stronger. I get the 9 locking lugs but they're so small, I've often wondered if the overall bearing area is really that much greater. Aside from that, I see no advantage. The ring diameter is no bigger than a Savage or Remington and it uses the same barrel shank and thread size as the Remington if I remember correctly.
Now I have heard of lug setback happening when someone takes a regular Savage action and tries shooting the Lapua in it but haven't heard of it with the actual Lapua action. I'd think Savage would have recalled them if there were reports of that happening or the risk of it.
Every Lapua and Rum action I have worked on has had lug set back on the top lug abutment. Why on the top lug abutment? Because the top abutment is the thickest. The bottom lug abutment is weaker because it transitions into a feed ramp, thus it flexes with the bolt head. The top lug ends up taking the majority of the the bolt thrust. The bottom lug abutment is almost .050" shorter on the Lapua action to make room for a longer magazine.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Well that’s concerning and disappointing to hear. I thought the lapua specific actions were beefed up enough to not have that problem. Mine haven’t had a problem yet but I really haven’t shot them that much either. Wonder why savage wouldn’t recall them?
Is there a point to where it stops after the steel compresses so far or breaks? I don’t suppose you could reset your headspace after so much and be ok?
every SAVAGE action ???
or all actions ??
Just to be clear, Savage actions that were originally chambered for 338 Lapua and the Rem ultra mags.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Ok so where does this leave the OP who wants to use his 111 action for a 300 Rum build?
Or any other person out there having similar ideas?
That's a good question. Honestly, I've built and tinkered with these things for quite a few years now. Not claiming to be an expert by any means, so please don't misunderstand. With that being said, up until this thread, I'd never heard of people having problems with RUM's and lug setback. I have heard of it happening with the Lapua size case but never the RUM size.
as i see it ..no where
stories
hearsay
no DATA on what caused the setback .
someone claims to have seen setback but has no data on what caused it.
no savage recall nor safety warning, so i suspect poor loading discipline.
no an issue for normal loads and reasonable safe approach to loading.
Thanks guys for the advice. Im a big savage gun fan. I enjoy shooting them. Im glad for your alls advice i almost bought the 110 338 lapua long range. Im glad for all the advice i got on here and i will just build my larger rum and lapua and still keep my smaller guns savage thanks
Just out of curiosity, what do you plan to use action wise for a RUM or Lapua?
Well i for one am very pleased that the Administrator and Sharpshooter have both weighed in on this topic/post.
Needles to say that both are excellent authorities on all gun related issues, especially Savage.
Who better to have an opinion than one who has made a living building Savage competition guns, and who himself is a record holding competitor.
Be advised however that all of us have opinions, and that includes professional gunsmiths.
And sometimes those opinions can be somewhat biased toward certain products.
That certainly wouldn’t be the case here however so that needs to be considered.
As for Wetherby, knowledgeable people run hot and cold on those also.
Bruce Baer who i know very well for many years isn’t a big fan for Wetherby actions.
But that’s not saying he would prefer a Savage either.
And obviously I don’t always take what he says seriously, unless i know he is being very serious.
I've read a lot about the Weatherby MKV over the years too. Again, I am by no means an expert. But from the measurements I've read, I just don't see what makes the MKV so much stronger. The measurements I've read on the locking lugs shows no more bearing surface area of them than with two large locking lugs. The receiver ring and barrel shank are the same size as a Remington or Savage. Not trying to argue, just thinking out loud based on what I've found.
I've spoken recently with other guys who shoot Savage Lapuas and have a lot more rounds through theirs than I do mine. They have not found any increase in headspace or any indication of lug setback. There are many factors unknown that could come in to play. I'm wondering if the users who've had issues have either been shooting hand loads that are way too hot, well over max, or if they've got too much oil in their chamber that they didn't clean out. This could cause issues with any size cartridge due to the case not being able to grip the chamber walls upon firing and causing too much bolt thrust. I always swap my chambers with a degreaser after cleaning and prior to firing them.
Also, as litigious as society is, and as hard as the left is trying to shut down the firearm industry, 2nd amendment, etc, I can't for the life of me understand why Savage wouldn't recall them, issue warnings, and stop production of them if there was any indication that they were too dangerous/unsafe to operate. Again, if someone were to try a Lapua on a standard Savaqe action, I'd say yeah they're asking for trouble. But with the actions Savage makes that are specifically for the Lapua, I've yet to see anything detrimental. I'd like to see photos of the actions and their lug recesses that are claimed to have setback, as well as know what loads they were using, and if they had oil in their chamber or not.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks